What are we allowed to post in this section?

[sailortats]

Steve, I have to disagree with some of what you are saying. In the "style" section for "traditional kilts" it states in part:
(discuss and see examples of how kilts can be worn to emulate a traditional style or fashion)

However in your above post you state, in part:Posting about a jacket in the Style Forum is therefore incorrect as the Style Forum Section is currently defined. As currently defined a jacket would be an accessory to a kilt so is most appropriately posted to the Accessories Section.

How can we discuss and see how a kilt is worn traditionally if all we can discuss and see is the kilt itself and nothing that goes with it? The rest of the outfit is what constitutes traditional or non-traditional aspects of the wearing of the kilt.

[IsaacW]

I have been following this thread with great interest. I have not had much to add but do have rather strong feelings to the whole thing. This is a great forum that I have learned a lot from. I have also gained much inspiration from it, and I hate to see it waste away as other fora have done. My only addition to the conversation deals with the following...

And frankly I am getting just a little tired of the traditional vs modern tension that is caused by the way THCD is used. Lately X Marks has become known as a traditionalist stronghold.

Having been on many fora dealing with a range of topics; the fora that tend to see the most tension by "opposing factions"/different styles/POVs/etc. tend to be where they are mixed without regard. This tends to lead people to interject their opinions without regard to the intent of the OP or the intent/desire of the OP. Most of this is caused by simple miscommunication/misunderstanding, not a dislike or disregard from the other person's opinion. Giving an area for the different POVs to ask and answer of each other, often helps alleviate the tensions caused by the miscommunication.

Cordially.

Isaac

[macwilkin]

I have to agree with this. I have been feeling as if the traditional sub-forum is somehow "on the outs" with the current "leadership", so to speak. As a result, it is being slowing choked out of the forum.

I come to the traditional sub-forum to have (or more accurately see) conversations about the overall wearing of kilt attire in a traditional manner. Primarily, because that is how I prefer to wear my own. Additionally, when I seek a new opinion, I decidedly go into the sub-forum(s) which provide differing thoughts. However, when I want to discuss something with like minded people, I do NOT wear my traditional outfit into a biker bar and expect to have an extended discussion about proper shoes and or hose to wear at a particular event. But if I DO desire that conversation, I too would like to avoid the "wear whatever you want, there are no rules" commentary that serves no purpose to aid the conversation that I seek.

Spot on, sir, especially your first sentence.

I would be agreeable to changing the Style Forum Section based on the reason we wear a kilt not on how we choose to wear it or what we choose to wear with it.

Respectfully, what about those of us who wear a kilt to be traditional, Steve? For the record, I don't wear my kilt as "daily street wear", though I certainly do not begrudge those who do; on the contrary. But there are many of us who wear Traditional Highland Civilian Dress for functions such as Burns Suppers, St. Andrew's Balls, Caledonian Society meetings, lodge "dos" and other assorted functions and those only. Sure, I may throw my kilt on because it's St. Columba's Day or the regimental day of the Calcutta Scottish regiment and all that, but there's usually a Scottish connection. But that's just me. ;-)

One of my co-workers and I frequently joke that given the trend in tattoos today, it is almost "non-conformist" to not have one. (and for the record, I have no issues with tattoos. I'm just not sure I want one.) I would daresay that those of us who do not wear a kilt to make a statement, save that of our pride in heritage an interest in tradition and custom are fast becoming non-conformist as well. I think this is what Chesterton had in mind when he said:

He is only a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of the conservative.

Again, as Alan H. so eloquently put it in another thread -- what others choose to wear is their business, and I respect that. All I ask is the same in return.

[davidlpope]

I agree with Todd. The reason that I wear the kilt is to participate in and perpetuate a rich culture that originated in the Highlands of Scotland and has since spread to the rest of Scotland, Britain, the Empire, and the world. I suspect that many, if not most, of the folks on XMarks resonate with that, as well. The kilt will always be tied to the culture of Highland Scotland. I choose to celebrate that, rather than negate it.

If being a "non-conformist" is enough to merit a subforum, surely the same should be true for "conformists". Please create a subforum for those who desire to wear the kilt in a traditional Highland manner.

[McMurdo]

Steve
Your contention that the jacket and all the other accessories belong in another sub forum is incongruous with what Jamie and I did in the 1 kilt 10 looks thread which, if I may say has helped countless kilt wearers figure out what to wear and how to wear it. The thing is that whether someone is wearing the kilt traditionally or not, the kilt is constant. Of course this does not take into effect Utilikilts, Freedom Kilts or the like, however my point is just because it is a traditionally made kilt that does not mean it needs to be worn in a traditional manner. Thus it is the accessories that make an outfit traditional or contemporary. If you agree with the above then it follows that posting about a traditional outfit in the traditional sub forum would be the right place. Here is what the sub forum says is appropriate to post as it stands:

This forum sub-section is for those interested in learning about and discussing Traditionally made kilts and to discuss and see examples of how kilts can be worn to emulate a traditional style or fashion

Having read that how can one possibly post about a traditional outfit without mentioning the jacket, the sporran, the hose, or the sgian dubh worn? The simple answer is one can not.

[macwilkin]

I agree with Todd. The reason that I wear the kilt is to participate in and perpetuate a rich culture that originated in the Highlands of Scotland and has since spread to the rest of Scotland, Britain, the Empire, and the world. I suspect that many, if not most, of the folks on XMarks resonate with that, as well. The kilt will always be tied to the culture of Highland Scotland. I choose to celebrate that, rather than negate it.

If being a "non-conformist" is enough to merit a subforum, surely the same should be true for "conformists". Please create a subforum for those who desire to wear the kilt in a traditional Highland manner.

To add to David's post: part of the issue may be the term "non-conformist". That term today has a very positive connotation, while "conformist" is almost always has a pejorative one. Let's face it, it's "cool" to be non-conformist.

I just noted the new forum sections have a "special occasion" one and a "non-conformist" one. Isn't that the same thing as saying THCD is creating a divide among forum members? If you're not a non-conformist, but only wear a kilt for "special occasions", you're somehow not as "cool"?

Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, especially to my contemporary kilt-wearers. I salute them for their own style. In the words of one of my favourite poems, "The Little Red God":

"[He] wears the clothes he likes to wear, never dreaming that people stare."

Ironically, I spent the weekend trying to find a pair of traditional-looking chukka boots online. I finally found a pair from Wolverine with the descriptor "Heritage". One of the customer reviews stated, "They look like pair of WWII USMC boots." That was enough to sell me. <grin> I march to my own drummer by seeking out garments in the style my grandfather would have worn, because they are "classic", "heritage" and dare I say it -- "traditional".

T.

[Nathan]

I'm getting tired of the traditional versus non-traditional tension as well, but I don't think the solution is to castrate the traditionalists. This place has a reputation for being a traditionalist stronghold? It's also the busiest kilt related site on the internet. See a connection? I do. This is, among other things, a place where newbies to the kilt can learn how to not embarrass themselves at kilted functions. For that reason it is a great resource. If someone can't find out how to wear a traditional Highland garment in a traditional Highland way in any corner of this website, the utility of this forum will diminish as will its traffic.

[creagdhubh]

I agree with Todd. The reason that I wear the kilt is to participate in and perpetuate a rich culture that originated in the Highlands of Scotland and has since spread to the rest of Scotland, Britain, the Empire, and the world. I suspect that many, if not most, of the folks on XMarks resonate with that, as well. The kilt will always be tied to the culture of Highland Scotland. I choose to celebrate that, rather than negate it.

If being a "non-conformist" is enough to merit a subforum, surely the same should be true for "conformists". Please create a subforum for those who desire to wear the kilt in a traditional Highland manner.

Precisely, David.

[Kilted Cole]

For those of us whom are less tech savvy..... by moving all of these threads out of the "Traditional" thread, it makes it harder to find what we are looking for, when looking for Highland Kilt fashion before the 1960's.
At least it does for me.

[Dughlas mor]

All I can say is that I hope this ongoing controversy can be resolved soon, and in such a way that the TCHD boys [I use the term with affection] can be accommodated. It seems we are already starting to lose some of them, and I consider them to be a most vital part of this forum. I don`t know if I would dress that way, even If I could afford to, but I have always found their threads to be very entertaining and very informative, and I have certainly learned a lot from them.