Sporran design question

[The Wizard of BC]

Do we not have quite a few examples of military horsehair sporrans of the same period with tassels?

[Cyd]

By "Military" do you mean "pipe band?" I'm sure there are many examples of horse hair sporrans with tassels both contemporary and historical. Whether a sporran of long horse hair is appropriate for general formal wear is another matter. The only time I have seen sporrans of long horse hair worn outside a pipe band is at a rugby match or in a pub. I guess I am struggling to find a point here. Can you help me out?

Below is basically what I am referring to, and assume you are as well.



I think the original poster is thinking more along the lines of this (but with and oval cantel)



or perhaps this;



Here is an antique horse hair sporran that is not a piper's sporran and looks elegant for formal wear. Unless the hand belongs to a freak, the sporran is no more than about 10 inches in length and although perhaps a little flashy for some tastes certainly should be acceptable formal wear.



The sporran below however is not what the average well dressed Highlander is wearing to his formal occasions. It is at least 18 inches long covers 2/3 of the apron (or more) and belongs in the band:



Basically, wearing a big gaudy sporran falls into the same camp as wearing a fly plaid just because you own one. It breaks the golden rule that you do not show up your host by outdressing him and making yourself the center of attention. As soon as you throw out that rule allowing everyone to dress up and pretend to be king, you cease to represent traditional highland dress and are just wearing a costume to a fancy dress party.

The problem with using old portraits as a guide to formal dress is that the subject of the portrait IS the center of attention and probably dressed to the nines. Portraits rarely depict what the average guest was or should be wearing, unless it says so somewhere. If you dress like am 18th century portrait, you not only risk showing up your host, but also wearing something so dated and only fashionable for a short period long ago that you elicit ridicule rather than admiration whether someone is brassy enough to tell you so or not. Either way you turn yourself into a caricature and mock tradition, which probably was not at all your intention.

If in doubt, google "Scottish wedding pictures" or "Scottish Burns supper pictures" and look at what the attendees other than the groom or the master of ceremony is wearing. You won't see too many big gaudy sporrans or fly plaids and if you do, check and make sure the picture is Scottish or some other reputable source and not from a group of well intentioned people with a shallow understanding of tradition.

I'm not saying that you have to copy what others are wearing. There is nothing wrong with some individual flair. Just keep it within accepted boundaries of tradition and good taste. The time to be gaudy and crazy with your dress is at sporting events, faires, and pub nights, not at your friends wedding, on Burns night, or a visit to the symphony.

As to tenmiles plans, he can knock himself out. He is the groomsman and the sporrans he is making are for himself and the groom who are king for the day and the center of attention. I look forward to seeing what he comes up with.

[Tenmiles]

I think the original poster is thinking more along the lines of this (but with an oval cantel)



or perhaps this;

Well, to be honest, I've never made a sporran with a cantle before, and am still researching sources for said piece, and need to learn a little about how they are affixed to the body of the pouch.
I hadn't decided, really, if I would go for a full mask, a shiny cantle, or just a leather flap ( perhaps with a cantle-like overlay, but still setting the piece within the realm of what is referred to as "semi-formal", rather like the style of the top sporrans shown above).

As for tassels, they certainly would be a great deal more modest than the horse tassels depicted above (ermine tails are of course rather small).

I also must confess that I'm not as much a fan of shiny silver/pewter as I am of copper, bronze, or brass; though I do recognize how a yellow metal simply wouldn't compliment a black & white fur theme nearly as nicely.

[Cyd]

You could go the middle route as well, like below (just talking about the cantel) using a thin strip of pewter perhaps:


Or go full face. I think your reservations about tassels is well placed. They might just be distracting from the pelt underneath. I look forward to what you decide and any posts you can manage of the process along the way perhaps? It would be interesting to see how you put it all together.

[Tenmiles]

It would be interesting to see how you put it all together.

I am just as interested as you to see how this turns out, but I haven't even started yet - pictures may be some time in coming (I've long had that bad habit of waiting until an impending deadline to get me into gear, and this wedding isn't until August, so...)

[The Wizard of BC]

No Cyd, I do not mean pipe bands.

I am referring to the British military, kilted Regiments.

There are pictures of these military uniforms all over this site and the vast majority of them have tassels.

[Cyd]

I'm not familiar with them on this site, but then that may simply be my unfamiliarity with the site. They are certainly all over the internet. Here are a few that came up with "Scottish kilted regiment" and I post here because I am intrigued as to where this is going.

[Tenmiles]

Great pictures by the way!

Not to derail that particular discussion, but a whole new question has just developed for me, and I'm hoping I can get some advice here...

I just learned that most modern cantles are merely decorative "frontspieces", as it were, and that there's a significant distinction between them and "functional sporran cantles", which apparently haven't been widely used for a while.
(like I mentioned, I haven't built any fancy dress sporrans before, so this is my first time working with cantle-style closures).

In the case of decorative cantles, I assume they just riveted to the leather on the front panel of the bag, but how does the actual opening work?
I can't find any pictures which make clear the design and construction of the pouch opening (and closure) "behind" the decorative cantle.



The second thing I'm up against is that I'm having trouble locating a budget-sensitive source for cantles.
I don't want to pay $60-$75 bucks for one from the UK, but I also don't want to have to buy a pack of ten cheap ones from China or Pakistan.

It's honestly looking like my best bet is to buy a ready-made sporran off ebay or something, for $25 bucks, and just cannibalize it for the parts.

Is this truly what I'm facing now?

[MacRobert's Reply]

Functioning cantles were around in the late 17th Century and throughout the 18th Century. They had a bit of a revival around the turn of the 19th and 20th Centuries and were manufactured for Scottish regiments in the early 1950s for the Queen's coronation. Decorative, non functioning, cantles were common throughout the Victorian era and are the norm today. On modern sporrans they are usually attached by three or five screws which are soldered to the inside of the cantle. Look inside most dress sporrans and you will see the nuts. On older sporrans they may be attached by two screws or pins that go right through the front to the cantle.

Most cantles are now closed by a wee strap with a popper on the rear of the sporran. I'll try to attach a few photographs but the best way to understand the construction is to examine one.

A 25 buck sporran will tend to provide you with a 10 buck cantle that looks like its worth 5 bucks. You may be better looking for an old sporran with a much better quality cantle that can be reused. Many older ones are silver rather than chrome plated.

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[Tenmiles]

Thank you for the pictures! One problem is that, indeed, I have never had the opportunity to handle or directly examine a cantle-style formal sporran. It might be worth the $25 just to acquire one of those cheap ones simply to observe it's general construction, though I was suspecting what you said here, that it wouldn't likely be a source for a decent cantle to re-use; more's the pity.