Shopping on the Royal Mile

[Hamish]

Much as I fear disputing anything said by Hamish (I've been lurking on this board for months) reading this made my blood boil so much I've just had to join this board to reply!

Last year I bought a jacket from Geoffrey Tailor which was far from the cheapest around but I thought I'd be getting quality. As suggested, I even asked them if it was made in Scotland and not an import from India or wherever the junk ones come from. They told me it was indeed hand-made in Scotland. Even when new I was a little disappointed with the fit. But far worse was that within weeks it was starting to split at the seams.

On my next trip to Edinburgh I returned it and demanded a refund, which they gave me without much fuss. But whilst moaning to the sales assistant, it 'came out' (I think they were a bit disgruntled!) that the jacket was not in fact made in Scotland at all! Apparently they import them from overseas and then just sew their own buttons and labels on. This means they can legally describe them as made in Scotland!

This may be legal, but in my book it's anything but reputable. If I hadn't been in a hurry I'd have kicked up a hell of a stink, and now I wish I had. I've been fuming about it ever since. I especially hate that I was effectively lied to an conned, even when I asked them a direct question. How can anyone trust a firm like that? So I think Hamish should know about this and maybe ask them some pointed questions next time he's in touch with his favourite firm. Because in my book they're a bunch of dishonest sharks.

Kenny,

First of all, welcome to "X Marks.." It is always good to hear at last from those who have lurked on the sidelines for a while.

Thank you for what you have told us of your experiences with Geoffrey (Tailor) in Edinburgh, which I simply cannot relate to - but we all must speak as we find. In spite of how things might appear, I have absolutely no business interest or connection with that company apart from the fact that I currently have in my wardrobe 11 superb kilts, three wonderful contemporary kilt suits, a grey tweed Argyll jacket, a Prince Charlie dress jacket and waistcoat, several sporrans and numerous pairs of kilt hose all purchased from Geoffrey or his son, Howie at "TFCK", over the past four and a half years.

Every one of those garments/accessories is faultless and gives me enormous pleasure. Geoffrey, his family and his staff members have unfailingly given me first class service and attention and, on the strength of MY experience, I recommend them to anyone who seeks the product quality and service I have come to expect.

I am truly very concerned to hear that you have reason to think of the Company differently, and I shall certainly question a family Director of the firm as to the true origin of their jackets. I am aware that they do not tailor jackets themselves - very few kiltmakers do, since traditional kiltmaking is such a uniquely specialised skill requiring several years of training. Bespoke jacket tailoring work is subcontracted to equally qualified specialists in their own field. Perhaps your jacket was off-the-peg and not tailored to measure, I would not know. Perhaps, some jackets are bulk purchased - again, I would not know.

What matters here is that it seems you were misinformed by a member of the sales staff when you made your purchase, and I am sure that Geoffrey and/or Laura Nicholsby would like to know about that. Did you write to the Managing Director or his wife about this experience? If not, I think you should have done.....perhaps it is still not too late to do so.

Again Kenny, I am so saddened to read what you have told us here.

[KennyB]

Thanks for the response Hamish, and I apologise if I seemed rude to you. Didn't mean to. I appreciate that your experience has been good, and I too have no connection with any of these firms. But I don't think their employee was making mischief. I got the feeling that they (I won't even say if it was a he or a she as I don't want to get anyone into trouble...) were fed up with having to be dishonest with customers, which is what this comes down to. It's true I should probably have written to them at the time, and probably still could. But frankly I didn't see the point, since this sort of dishonesty can only really come down from the top and so it seemed likely I'd only get more BS in return.

I think what really disgusts me is that the reason I asked in the first place about it being made in Scotland wasn't just to get a better quality product. But I'm also I'm keen to support the local companies who are doing their best to keep the old skills alive, in the face of intense competition from companies abroad who almost certainly employ sweatshop labour for pennies - child labour quite likely even. So when I found out that one of Scotland's most prominent companies was doing this, and basically telling great big lies, whilst still trading on an image of traditional Scottish values, I was just livid.

I could add that since then, as I've ranted about this to anyone that would listen, I've heard a few more stories about Geoffrey Tailors that only confirm my view of them. I'm not going to repeat these since they're not based on my own experience. But this was, and there's no way they're ever getting a penny more of my hard earned cash.

[Mychael Sporrano]

Welcome aboard, Kenny!

I am truly very concerned to hear that you have reason to think of the Company differently, and I shall certainly question a family Director of the firm as to the true origin of their jackets. I am aware that they do not tailor jackets themselves - very few kiltmakers do, since traditional kiltmaking is such a uniquely specialised skill requiring several years of training. Bespoke jacket tailoring work is subcontracted to equally qualified specialists in their own field.

I also find these allegations disconcerting and am looking forward to seeing an update on this. I cannot speak for the products of Geoffrey (Tailor) LTD./TFCK directly since I have only ordered from them and not received a product as of this writing.

Concerning the outsourcing of jackets, waistcoats, etc, Ham is correct that most kiltmakers do contract outside sources for these products, much like they do for the leather goods and jewelry that they sell. No big deal there. However, when a company claims that all products they sell are manufactured in the U.K, I would like to think that this is the case. Like Kenny, I also avoid sweat shop products when I can, and am always willing to pay a little more so that a person making an item can realize fair compensation from his work. I appreciate making a fair wage so why not extend the favor to the next guy.

Interesting, and not at all where I expected to see this thread go.



Mychael

[Mychael Sporrano]

Much as I fear disputing anything said by Hamish (I've been lurking on this board for months) reading this made my blood boil so much I've just had to join this board to reply!

Not to distract from the serious note this thread has taken, but I thought I would add that after having openly wrangled with Ham, several Xmarks members have either disappeared entirely or reported having services denied by U.K. kiltmakers.

Mychael

[bubba]

Mychael, that's bad!

[CelticRogue]

:o Wow! I certainly sparked some interesting comments and feedback just asking a question about shopping for a kilt jacket on the Royal Mile.
From all the responses, I gather it is "shopper be wary" and you get what you pay for.
I will take everyone's comment under advice while my wife and I walk the Royal Mile next week. I expect a good kilt jacket should run approx $250-$400 US. Am I about right, Ham?

[CelticRogue]

TARTAN WEB is a small family owned business that I have dealt with in the past with superior results on my first kilt jacket purchase. I had planned on visiting them while in Edinburgh, but when I got directions unfortunately, they are off the beaten path, about 25km west of the city with no modern means of transportation other than renting a car. So that venture will have to wait when I return on my own.

[Rhino]

You're about right there CR if I dare answer for Hamish (I don't want to dissapear), and obviously have a list of questions ready for the maker.
I have never dealt with the Geoffrey (Tailor) side of the company and can only speak about TFCK, from that part of the company I have recieved stirling service and quality of goods. Whilst I dont own a jacket I did borrow one and the quality seemed, to me, excellent.
As most of the cloth for G(T) is woven at the mill there, I would have thought it uneconomical to send it abroad to be made into garments and then sent back. Shipping would surely make it either unprofitable or the profits would be so small an increase as to be negligable.
Just my 2p
Cheers Rhino

[Hamish]

:o Wow! I certainly sparked some interesting comments and feedback just asking a question about shopping for a kilt jacket on the Royal Mile.
From all the responses, I gather it is "shopper be wary" and you get what you pay for.
I will take everyone's comment under advice while my wife and I walk the Royal Mile next week. I expect a good kilt jacket should run approx $250-$400 US. Am I about right, Ham?

Hi CR,

I don't believe we ever discussed the type of kilt jacket you were looking for!

If you're searching for a Day jacket (tweed Argyll perhaps) you are not far short of the average price. If, on the other hand, it is an evening jacket that you have in mind then I fear your estimate is going to be rather low and you should be expecting to pay somewhere around US$480 and upwards, depending upon the style and, indeed, fabric.

Give my regards to The Royal Mile. I'll be there myself in five weeks time.

[Xcop]

Firstly Welcome Kenny. At least we know that you are up front and not afraid to share an opinion. Since I've dealt with these folks I cannot offer an opinion. I can say that I have had great customer service from Burnett & Struths in Ontario, as well as Touch O'Tartan ( Gina and Lorraine are great ladies) www.touchotartan.ca and MacIsaac Kiltmakers in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia www.mackilts.com . For us living here in the US it is probably easier to deal with Canadians.

David