Too Traditional?

[Mael Coluim]

Well, said CmcG,

However, I am really hoping to get our number of replies to 300, so I offer the following link to a Facebook page. I do not know if it is possible to steal photos from there or not. My stomach and I were auctioning off tartan-related items, mostly, last night at an outdoor venue. That is a scrimshawed tooth in my right hand and a Loud MacLeod cummerbund in my right. My kilt had begun to slip, but I think camera angle is hiding my knees. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

I will be the first to admit- I thought the fair isles sweater was pushing things a little, as far as whether it looked good with the BW. Nobody would say it matched, exactly. It is pretty traditional, but I don't think it can redeem the Vasque hiking shoes.

As always, I am indebted to anyone who can help get this picture posted.

m'll

The link says "The Content is unavailable". Maybe you need to re-copy it.

[CMcG]

The link says "The Content is unavailable". Maybe you need to re-copy it.

Or perhaps we need to be MacLowlife's friend on facebook to see it?

[BCAC]

No, you can't be too traditional.

You can be too formal or too informal (overdressed/underdressed) for the occasion.

You can also look bit bit too much if you're wearing all the "bells and whistles" all stiff and brand new out of the box, but even that can't be called too traditional.

[Bugbear]

Or perhaps we need to be MacLowlife's friend on facebook to see it?

As far as I'm concerned, if there isn't a detailed written description, it didn't happen.

I suspect that there isn't a singular Highland attire tradition, it is many traditions and view points from many regions of the Highlands and, to some degree, all of Scotland, all fighting or cooperating. The differing attitudes toward the jabot are an example of this regional difference in view point, or eye toward the traditional. This would be in addition to "personal flare."
Just trying to not cookie cutter and over generalize the nature of traditions in the context of cultures.

[opositive]

my mere used to say that it is better to be over dressed than under dressed. but i do not think she understood the traditional way of dressing underneath a kilt, which is part of why i am amused that some people think you are "dressing up."

ps-come on--get this to 300 replies. the greeks will rue the day.

[CMcG]

I suspect that there isn't a singular Highland attire tradition, it is many traditions and view points from many regions of the Highlands and, to some degree, all of Scotland, all fighting or cooperating. The differing attitudes toward the jabot are an example of this regional difference in view point, or eye toward the traditional. This would be in addition to "personal flare."
Just trying to not cookie cutter and over generalize the nature of traditions in the context of cultures.

Yes, saying THE tradition is just a shorthand way of referring to the loose consensus among a variety of similar, but subtly different, local or personal views on wearing the kilt. THCD isn't a uniform, so I'm sure there are some regional differences, socioeconomic differences, age differences, etc.

Nonetheless, I still think there is a sort of ideal attire that would suit the taste of most people as the straight and narrow of tradition. Let's take daywear as an example, for a Highland Games or a wedding, perhaps even a nice dinner out with one's partner. For mild weather (not too hot or cold, no rain or too much sun), would anyone disagree on a tweed jacket, shirt, necktie, tank, hose, flashes, regular brogues, and a leather sporran? There is plenty of room in this simple formula for personal variation without getting into flair or being ostentatious: optional waistcoat or daywear belt, but not both; sgian dubh, or not; kilt pin, or not; shirt could be white (for a more dressy look), a light solid colour, or a pattern like tattersall or even gingham; solid colour necktie or club stripes; various colours and/or patterns of tweed; sporran chain or strap; leathers (sporran, shoes, belt) either black or brown, but OK to mix; flashes in most any solid colour; hose in any colour but white (well... maybe black isn't the best choice either).

Throw together all one's choices from the above menu (without getting all matchy-matchy) and I don't think any traditionalist, anywhere would disagree with it. Or would they? The result could go from very subdued to a riot of colours and patterns

From there, I think there are all sorts of personal or contextual additions and/or substitutions that could be made, all of which I have seen in pictures of native Scots, in Scotland: the dreaded (dreadful?) ghillie brogues; cromach or other walking stick; alternative sporrans like full mask or hair; other patterns for the neck tie, like paisley, tartan, or some sort of image; head wear with clan badge, most likely a Balmoral, but possibly a Tam o' Shanter or Glengarry; patterned cuff on the hose, or sometimes even argyle/tartan/diced; belt over the waistcoat (as per Invercauld); daywear dirk; laird's plaid; pocket square; pocket watch; garter ties or tartan flashes; plant badges; tweed kilts; etc.

This second list, to me, is more the personal flair side of the equation but perhaps some it has to do with the aforementioned regional, socioeconomic, or age differences? Not everyone is going to wear/carry or agree on these pieces of kit.

Some of the items are probably questionable (tartan tie, tartan flashes, alternative tie patterns, Glengarry hat, ghillie brogues), but others are quite common (Balmoral bonnet, patterned hose cuffs, pocket watch, pocket square). Some of them are sort of historical (day horsehair or goat hair, day dirk, patterned hose), while a few are contextual (cromach, laird's plaid). There are even traditional items that are just slightly more esoteric (full mask sporrans, plant badges, and the admittedly rare tweed kilts).

The optional additions and substitutions list is going to be where there is plenty of room for personal flair but also the most points of contention. There is also the danger of getting too traditional or, even worse, costume-like, historical, looking like a uniform, etc. Once again, I think a clan chief gets more leeway with these choices than their clansmen, the look needs to be tailored to event, crowd, and location, etc, etc. And of course there is the consideration of one's personal "budget of flair."

As an extreme example of too traditional, imagine a regular sort of chap puts on an outfit consisting of the basics from my first list, then decides to put on his Balmoral bonnet. This would still be perfectly fine, until he stuffs a plant badge behind the clan crest, on top of a completely miss-matched (not just mixed, contrasted, or complementary) bunch of colours and patterns, to go with his laird's plaid, cromach, and full mask sporran, on his way to do a bit of shopping or site-seeing in Edinburgh! All traditional to be sure, but too much for the context. Even at a Highland Games, this sort of outfit might be a bit much for just a regular (non-officiating or untitled) guy, especially so if he is only a visitor from outwith Scotland. It is the correct level of dress i.e. daywear, but just too traditional for both the individual and the situation.

[Bugbear]

So you're saying the Scots invented a sartorial form of precursor to the Rubik's Cube, except they're trying to keep all of the squares from matching?

[BCAC]

.............It is the correct level of dress i.e. daywear, but just too traditional for both the individual and the situation.

Your example is certainly overdressed for the occasion, but in no way too traditional.

You can't be too traditional. You are either traditional or not traditional. In the same way you can't be too contemporary.

[kilted scholar]

What a great thread!

[kilted scholar]

If one understands tradition as a living, dynamic reality the answer to the question is no.
If such tradition degenerates into traditionalism, which we can suppose to refer to the maintenance of a past practice - real or imagined - for its own sake, the answer would probably be yes.
Now we're at 300.