Scottish outlook on kilted Americans?

**Nathan** · 10th March 13, 09:54 AM

This is a debate of definitions. What a word means depends on the context in which it is being used. Objectively, the word Scot is an ethnic as well as a civic term. The concept of ethnicity seems lost on Jock and Phil but in a land of multicultural reality, the concept is vital. Ethnicity encompasses elements of both genetics and cultural practices. There is no such thing as an ethnic Canadian really. Even aboriginals refer to themselves as ethnic Cree or Mohawk etc... Scots are the third largest ethnic group in Canada and the largest ethnic group in Nova Scotia. I'm not a Scottish national but I am an ethnic Scot. This is a matter of objective fact and the most cursive glance at a dictionary or encyclopedia entry under the term will bear me out on that. Jews didn't stop being Jews when they left Judea and Scots didn't stop being Scots when they left Scotland. Just like there are ethnic Kurds in Iraq, there are ethnic Scots outside of Scotland. So no Jock, in point of fact I am not a non-Scot. I am a Canadian National and an ethnic Scot.

**Phil** · 10th March 13, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Nathan

I am a Canadian National and an ethnic Scot.

I have absolutely no issues with that and a definition of ethnicity is:-
'a. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage.
b. Being a member of a particular ethnic group, especially belonging to a national group by heritage or culture but residing outside its national boundaries'
which seems to describe how you define yourself perfectly.

**Singlemalt** · 10th March 13, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Phil

I have absolutely no issues with that and a definition of ethnicity is:-
'a. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage.
b. Being a member of a particular ethnic group, especially belonging to a national group by heritage or culture but residing outside its national boundaries'
which seems to describe how you define yourself perfectly.

I have no issue with Phil's definition and would be happy to drop the subject if we could compromise around it. I am ethnically Scottish; I identify with Scotland, the culture, the music, the language and the dress because I was raised with it and it was just who we in my family are, as were most in the small community I grew up in. It is deeply ingrained in my personal psyche and my vision of myself and my place in the world. I hold that dear and can get hot under the collar if I feel challenged about it.

However, I do feel I would be overstepping myself if I held forth with strong opinions on current Scottish political or economic issues, or presented myself as an expert on the country as it exists today. I have no vote and I pay no taxes there. I don't live there and at that level I will never be a Scot.

**Domehead** · 10th March 13, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Singlemalt

I have no issue with Phil's definition and would be happy to drop the subject if we could compromise around it. I am ethnically Scottish; I identify with Scotland, the culture, the music, the language and the dress because I was raised with it and it was just who we in my family are, as were most in the small community I grew up in. It is deeply ingrained in my personal psyche and my vision of myself and my place in the world. I hold that dear and can get hot under the collar if I feel challenged about it.

However, I do feel I would be overstepping myself if I held forth with strong opinions on current Scottish political or economic issues, or presented myself as an expert on the country as it exists today. I have no vote and I pay no taxes there. I don't live there and at that level I will never be a Scot.

Thank you. Very well said.

**Peter Crowe** · 10th March 13, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Singlemalt

I have no issue with Phil's definition and would be happy to drop the subject if we could compromise around it. I am ethnically Scottish; I identify with Scotland, the culture, the music, the language and the dress because I was raised with it and it was just who we in my family are, as were most in the small community I grew up in. It is deeply ingrained in my personal psyche and my vision of myself and my place in the world. I hold that dear and can get hot under the collar if I feel challenged about it.

However, I do feel I would be overstepping myself if I held forth with strong opinions on current Scottish political or economic issues, or presented myself as an expert on the country as it exists today. I have no vote and I pay no taxes there. I don't live there and at that level I will never be a Scot.

I must say I agree with this and what Phil said with regard to ethnicity. Kyleism +2

My only further observation would be that in Scotland today, national identity has a civic component as well as an ethnic one. As Kilted Scholar said in an earlier post, Scots (native to Scotland) along with many other Europeans are very cautious about placing too great an emphasis on an ethnic as opposed to a civic national identity, in no small part due to the problems that ethnocentric nationalism has caused the European Continent during the 20th Century.

That is not to say that ethnicity does not exist, it manifestly does. We would also do well to remember that trans-Atlantic relationships are dynamic and cultures cross-pollinate in both (and many other) directions.

**TheOfficialBren** · 10th March 13, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by neloon

And you have just enriched our lives, tripleblessed. Thank you!

Alan

***

And ***, Nathan.

**davidlpope** · 10th March 13, 02:26 PM

For the native Scots-

How does an individual such as the Duke of Atholl fit into this analysis? Does he get a "by" as we say here in the States?

David

**PodKiDo** · 10th March 13, 03:24 PM

I was looking for good information on kilts and found this forum. I joined a couple of days ago and have been enjoying the knowledge base found here. I got through about half of this thread and was thoroughly depressed by the ridicule individuals undergo if they wear kilts for other than special occasions in Scotland. I slept on it and have decided it doesn't matter what Scots think about non-Scots.

I am an American with both Irish and Scottish roots. I also have English, German and Cherokee blood. Those genealogical ties to different cultures are not badges or credentials. They are aspects of my physical nature and have some influence on my family traditions. US citizens have used food, dress, dance and other aspects of cultures to embrace and celebrate them. We can enjoy our own heritage and those of others without bringing dishonor to them. We dress up for Highland games because it's a way to connect with the culture and have a great time. I don't know why folks in Scotland don't. Must just be old hat to them I guess. The Scots who belittle casual kilt wearers are just like the French berating visitors for butchering their language when they try to use a phrase or two. Be happy we're excited about your country and its culture. That or close it to tourism.

If I choose to visit Scotland and happen to wear a kilt, it won't annoy me a bit if the locals are snotty. I'll just ask why, having such a wonderful article of clothing as a national symbol, they don't wear it often and with pride?

**Father Bill** · 10th March 13, 03:43 PM

Canadian with Scottish ethnicity. Not bad!

Jock, your last post was gentle. Thank you!

Yes, I for one have raw feelings; many other north americans here have stated the reasons well. I will continue to be sensitive to the thoughts of Scots (that rhymes now, doesn't it) if they will be sensitive to the raw feelings that come from being away from our roots.

Sensitivity and gentility count for an awful lot! Let us always think carefully before we post black and white word barriers!

**Singlemalt** · 10th March 13, 04:55 PM

Thank you Bill, there is a reason your profession is so valued even though we have instant access to "Google Answers" and "TV Psyc Experts". Nothing is more important than basic human respect and decency. I love a spirited debate but I hope I have offended none on either side of the Atlantic. If I have I offer my apologies, I can tend toward hotheadedness but Father Bill reminds me that sensitivity and gentility is a two way street. I can't expect it if I don't offer it. My new friend Aonghas reminds me that passion is almost always better than apathy but only if it is tempered with respect.