Scottish outlook on kilted Americans?

[Father Bill]

Singlemalt, you're a friend, and I appreciate your kind comments. You know, even if it isn't offered, it's something we owe one another, and I regret those times when I haven't offered it as easily as I might have.

[Nathan]

I have absolutely no issues with that and a definition of ethnicity is:-
'a. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage.
b. Being a member of a particular ethnic group, especially belonging to a national group by heritage or culture but residing outside its national boundaries'
which seems to describe how you define yourself perfectly.

Thanks, Phil. I appreciate your magnanimity. I would also like to thank Neloon for posting those links and being a voice from Scotland that showed there wasn't a polarization on this issue simply along geographic lines. This a good community. I fear that some of the folks who only read parts of this thread may come away with the wrong impression.

In the end, I think parsing this point of the ethnic Scot versus Scottish National has provided us with a means by which to understand each other and our respective connections to the garb specifically and the broader culture generally.

As Singlemalt eloquently pointed out, lecturing an old country Scot about how they should vote in any election or in 2014 would be out of line for a diaspora ethnic Scots, as we are too far removed from the context and consequences of such matters. However, learning to play the pipes or fiddle, learning some songs in Gaelic or Scots or researching the history of our clans and how we got to our respective countries, and yes even wearing the kilt with pride, that's what celebrating a culture is, and it is a shared love of this culture that binds us all, wherever we live.

[Jock Scot]

For the native Scots-

How does an individual such as the Duke of Atholl fit into this analysis? Does he get a "by" as we say here in the States?

I suspect two passports would solve that problem. He does also have a wee advantage over most in that he does have a standing Army at his disposal too.

[Jock Scot]

Yes, indeed. I was using you as a source, but there are others... hopefully not too many, though, or we might not be too far from international restrictions on Scotland's national attire in the way there are restrictions on the use of the term "Scotch whisky."

Here's a cartoon that is sort of related, but I am including to lighten the mood:




I don't mind if you want to call me a non-Scot, seeing as my heritage is mixed and my Scottish connection is ancient. For people with a more direct and/or recent Scottish pedigree, it would be favourable to use terms like "hyphenated Scot i.e. Scottish-Canadian," "overseas Scot," or "member of the Scottish diaspora," because these terms recognize the complexity of their hybrid identity as BOTH ethnically Scottish and a citizen/resident of another country.

I suppose many(most?) of us are ethnic some ones. I know I am. I know I am swimming against the tide here, but for me "ethnic-Scot" whilst being accurate in its description, just does not cover what I am trying to say.

Why can't you just be, Canadians/Americans/Wherevers? No one is denying you your roots, no one(in this thread) is saying don't wear the kilt, they are saying wear the kilt if you wish, no one is saying that you cannot recite Doric poetry, no one is saying that you cannot play the pipes, no one is saying that you cannot eat haggis 7 days a week(sorry I am trying to lighten up the post) these are entirely your choice. So I repeat.

Scots are just Scots, so it really escapes me and, dare I say it, many Scots, why Canadians for example, cannot be ,well, just Canadians.

[OC Richard]

Why can't you just be, Canadians/Americans/Wherevers?

Scots are just Scots, so it really escapes me and, dare I say it, many Scots, why Canadians for example, cannot be ,well, just Canadians.

I agree. I've never thought of myself as being "Scottish" and would never call myself "a Scot"... my Passport and Birth Certificate say otherwise! I know exactly what I am: a West Virginian of mixed English, Irish, and Scots ancestry. I play the pipes and wear the kilt while I'm playing them... pretty much the whole thing in a nutshell.

(English/Irish/Scots and who knows? a bit of Native American and even Melungeon.)

[Father Bill]

Why can't you just be, Canadians/Americans/Wherevers?

Well, Jock, as so many of us have often tried to explain, a place like Scotland is relatively homogeneous and long-rooted compared to Canada or the U.S. For that reason, we look around at our obvious diversity, and rightly or wrongly, folks like to ask "Where are you (or your people) from?"It helps a lot of folks to understand the cultural points of view of the people with whom they interact which here are often widely and wildly divergent.

The result has been what, to you, might appear as a disproportionate delight and pride in our own and our countries' varied ethnicities. Those are important (and delightful) to us in a way that I don't sense they are in Scotland or other "Old World" countries.

Is it sensible? I don't know. Just live with it. We do.

[WVHighlander]

Och! Not to destroy life much further, but it's been my observation that the inhabitants of a lot of places don't know the history of their own place either! What a shame; how unfortunate!

Very true Padre. I for one was never exposed to it growing up. A child of the Baby Boomers, my biological genetic participant decided to love the one he was with or some such thing...: however, I was to learn years later he didn't even know about his roots beyond the Appalachian Mountains. I am still in the process of trying to uncover those lost connections. But, over 200 yrs with the same surname and a DNA test that looks pretty Celtic/British Isles-ish I am feeling pretty secure in my assumptions. But alot of that history has been lost and not passed down, like our cousins did in Canada. It is hard to get it reestablished too...but my family is giving it a good effort between myself and my adopted daughter who is also, coincidentally, of Scottish ancestry.

Incidentally, I agree with OC on his point. If you ask me I will tell you I have Scots, Irish, Welsh, English and Hungarian ancestry...with a host of others sprinkled in there. However, if you ask me abroad what I am I will say an American. If you ask me in the states I will tell you I am a West Virginian.....Much like my UK mates whom I have served with will tell the unknowing they are British and the knowing they will let know they are English, Scottish, Welsh ....

[Jock Scot]

Father Bill.

Indeed I will "live with it". As we have spent many hours here discussing it and I think we understand each other's positions well-----I don't think that we will ever agree totally----- and we both are most definitely the wiser for it. The problem is that there are several million Scots who have not read this, as there are also even more millions around the world who also have not read this. The outcome sadly is that the "playing at being a Scot" type thoughts will still persist in Scotland as will the hurt that those outwith Scotland will feel. And you will have to live with that. Still, two down---you and me-----how many millions to go, do you reckon?

[David Thorpe]

Still, two down---you and me-----how many millions to go, do you reckon?

A Kyle plus one makes it at least three.

[Father Bill]

Jock, you've hit the nail squarely on the head! I'll live with it if you can too!

Bill