"Viking Style" Brouge lacing?

[EagleJCS]

I might want to wear knee-high striped gym socks, swim trunks, cowboy boots with spurs, a polo shirt with a bowtie, and a bandana on my head to church because these are all typical items worn in America, but then I would think to myself, "no, that would look stupid/inappropriate and this combination is one of those things that people in my country inherently understand is just not done."

And what's wrong with that outfit? I think I saw something like that this past summer.

<Just trying to insert a little levity.>


I rarely rely on any advertisements, online or otherwise, for guidance on how to wear specialized clothing. (And that's what we're talking about. Ethnic/cultural-based clothing.) Instead, I observe others wearing those garments and other people's reactions to them before I start investigating how to acquire some of my own. I also seek out and speak to (either in person or via a forum such as this) those that appear to be comfortable and well-practiced in wearing the clothing in question.

To each their own.

[Jock Scot]

And what's wrong with that outfit? I think I saw something like that this past summer.

<Just trying to insert a little levity.>


I rarely rely on any advertisements, online or otherwise, for guidance on how to wear specialized clothing. (And that's what we're talking about. Ethnic/cultural-based clothing.) Instead, I observe others wearing those garments and other people's reactions to them before I start investigating how to acquire some of my own. I also seek out and speak to (either in person or via a forum such as this) those that appear to be comfortable and well-practiced in wearing the clothing in question.

To each their own.

Wise words.

[Ivor]

An interesting set of responses although I’m not sure whether I am any clearer on the rights and wrongs of kilt-wearing, apart from pleats at the front that is. I wondered about the country dancers as they didn’t seem to be “entertainers” more a group of enthusiasts but if, indeed, it is only entertainers who dress in this way the obviously it is not appropriate for everyday wear. As someone else said you may get opinions you don’t like but then does that mean that anything said here is no more than a personal opinion or should it be accepted as a universal truth? Then there is the statement that this is some form of ethnic dress which leads us onto the grounds of straying into the realms of nationality and should we be cautious of offending these. I am not sure of this as there seem to be many nationalities here, none of whom seem averse to adopting what must be to them an alien form of dress.
I am not trying to be contentious here just to discover what is really unacceptable and what is essentially a matter of personal choice. If I decide to go into the world wearing white socks with laces halfway up my legs will I be subjected to ridicule and derision?

[Father Bill]

You won't be subjected to ridicule or derision, but your laces will likely creep down over an hour or so, possibly taking the socks with them and if so, you'll be annoyed with having to pull them up often and re-lace. That's why the advice comes as it does.

If you wear white socks, nobody will think much of it, but you won't look quite like a seasoned kilty to the very few in the room who actually know, and you'll not likely be the only one. A lot of us just don't like the appearance as it reminds us of other choices that aren't always in the best of taste.

Yes there are a lot of personal opinions here, but if you follow the general trend of opinion, taking note of those who seem better informed, you'll likely come up with a reasonable consensus.

I am always leary of those who say "It's your stuff; wear it however you choose." While what they say is technically correct, it's also far, far from helpful. Some cultures represented here have that as their mantra and proclaim it without thought. With care, you'll pick them out, and make your own decisions.

Having said all that, many of our best-dressed kilties will sometimes veer ever slightly off course as a matter of personal preference. I plead guilty to that, for one. My particular vice is sporrans, and like a woman who likes flashy purses, I sometimes over-egg the cake.

The other thing to be aware of is trying to fit into the milieu. If every other kilt-wearer in the room is making the same mistake and you fail to do so, you'll look like the odd man out, so if everyone in the group is going to wear a Prince Charlie when they really should be wearing tweed for the nature of the event, you might choose to wear a PC for the sake of fitting in.
Ultimately too, you and they will wear what you have, not what you don't own.

Best advice I can give though, is that for many events you're better to under-dress just a tad rather than over-dress a lot.

Of course, that's all just my opinion, but I think I've earned the right to both have one, and to be considered more knowledgeable and traditional than many newer or less-experienced kilties.

Hope that helps a little to ease the pain.

[Jock Scot]

An interesting set of responses although I’m not sure whether I am any clearer on the rights and wrongs of kilt-wearing, apart from pleats at the front that is. I wondered about the country dancers as they didn’t seem to be “entertainers” more a group of enthusiasts but if, indeed, it is only entertainers who dress in this way the obviously it is not appropriate for everyday wear. As someone else said you may get opinions you don’t like but then does that mean that anything said here is no more than a personal opinion or should it be accepted as a universal truth? Then there is the statement that this is some form of ethnic dress which leads us onto the grounds of straying into the realms of nationality and should we be cautious of offending these. I am not sure of this as there seem to be many nationalities here, none of whom seem averse to adopting what must be to them an alien form of dress.
I am not trying to be contentious here just to discover what is really unacceptable and what is essentially a matter of personal choice. If I decide to go into the world wearing white socks with laces halfway up my legs will I be subjected to ridicule and derision?

To your first paragraph, there is a can of worms in danger in being opened. These are subjects that are best left alone.

As to the second paragraph, you are free to wear what you wish, in the real world, polite people keep their thoughts to themselves.

On a website such as Xmarksthescot, thoughtful advice and opinions-------sometimes strong opinions----- are offered with good will, and we try and usually succeed in disagree-ing without being disagreeable. We are fortunate, as some other websites are not quite as polite.

Wear what you wish in the real world, but, ask questions and voice opinions on this website, or any other website, then contrary advice and opinions will be sure to follow.Thats the way it is.

[Ivor]

Thank you, Father Bill, that must be the most sensible advice I have seen here yet, and I have looked at so many threads in the past just to get a really balanced view. As I posted before my wife has a Scottish background although no kilt-wearers we are aware of so all advice is valued. Also I must have some Yorkshire blood(not that I know of) bur still have short arms and long pockets so the budget for occasionally worn clothes is definitely not bottomless- hence the white socks question. I know others suggest black socks but is this not just white socks by another name? I am not sure that I want to look like or am even qualified to look like a seasoned kiltie and, from what I have seen, white socks seem pretty mainstream.

[Tobus]

Having said all that, many of our best-dressed kilties will sometimes veer ever slightly off course as a matter of personal preference.

Oh yes, absolutely. Knowing the traditions and then occasionally breaking them on purpose can be a personal style decision. Everyone is allowed a wee bit of individualism or (gasp!) eccentricity, even in traditional circles. But knowing that you're doing it, choosing an appropriate context in which to do it, and doing it in a unique personal manner, is wholly different than following the trends of an entire group (like some hire outfitters and poorly-educated reenactors) who somehow manage to turn the entire outfit into a lampoon. It's fairly easy to identify those who are making a personal style statement versus those who just don't understand how to wear their clothes properly.

I, for one, don't care to dressed exactly the same as everyone else around me so that we all look like we're wearing a uniform. That's the danger (if one could call it that) of adhering too strictly to a narrow tradition. Some do find comfort in uniformity, though, and there's nothing wrong with that. The key is first to know where the boundaries lie between tradition, personal touches, and lampoonery. They are not clear boundaries, and it can be very confusing to a new kilt-wearer, so it's often best to adopt the traditional approach first and expand from there rather than starting off way outside the boundaries. I'll be the first to admit that I have veered off course on occasion, sometimes intentionally and sometimes out of ignorace.

As has been said, it would be pretty rare to encounter outright ridicule and derision when kilt attire is worn improperly (although it does happen in the wild). But if we're being honest, there is a lot of silent or discreet judgment. That may or may not matter to each person, but it's there.

[Father Bill]

Thank you, Father Bill, that must be the most sensible advice I have seen here yet, and I have looked at so many threads in the past just to get a really balanced view. As I posted before my wife has a Scottish background although no kilt-wearers we are aware of so all advice is valued. Also I must have some Yorkshire blood(not that I know of) bur still have short arms and long pockets so the budget for occasionally worn clothes is definitely not bottomless- hence the white socks question. I know others suggest black socks but is this not just white socks by another name? I am not sure that I want to look like or am even qualified to look like a seasoned kiltie and, from what I have seen, white socks seem pretty mainstream.

Thank you for your kind encouragement.

You're quite correct - black socks tend to get some of the same critique and response as white for similar reasons - largely over-use, particularly among bands, but being less likely to reflect the sunlight, black hose seem to get a wee bit less criticism. They don't reflect the bright sunshine at the eye. Nothing wrong with them, just very common and for that reason, to my own eye perhaps too 'usual'.

The fact that you see white so often in the mainstream is possibly that they're easier for the hire industry to put out and go with everything, so every rental you see will likely have white, thus increasing their use, and convincing those who buy that they're the norm. I've also learned that many hire staff will tell customers that they're 'correct'. Sometimes that has more to do with store policy than individualized taste. Well, they're not 'incorrect' to say so, so I guess they're right that way. They're just less common in use among the 'cognoscenti'. They're also easy for the hire shops to bleach out (carefully) and re-use, so perhaps it becomes store policy that way, and reduces the number of colours they need to have on the shelf, leaving space for things they can sell at a profit.

What about a pair of nicely knitted tan or claret hose? Pretty easy to pair off with most highland wear and not part of that dull movement so to speak. I personally, have a pair of buffalo hose with a wee bit of a figured knit, that go with pretty well everything, and also claret in a plainer knit. They're not eye-grabbers, nor do they reflect blinding rays of sunshine. You might want to try something like that if it suits you (and your wife of course).

So, out of curiosity, why would you not want to look like an experienced kilt-wearer? If you do, then you're instantly qualified!

[gsmacleod]

Also I must have some Yorkshire blood(not that I know of) bur still have short arms and long pockets so the budget for occasionally worn clothes is definitely not bottomless- hence the white socks question. I know others suggest black socks but is this not just white socks by another name?

I own both cream and black hose and I couldn't tell you the last them either pair has seen the light of day. While both are fairly common, with so many other options, I see no good reason to not wear something more interesting than white or black.

For the thrifty, if you know how to knit (or want to invest a bit of time to learn) or know someone who does, knitting a pair of kilt hose is a pretty straightfoward process.

Shane

[Silmakhor]

Thank you, Father Bill, that must be the most sensible advice I have seen here yet, and I have looked at so many threads in the past just to get a really balanced view. As I posted before my wife has a Scottish background although no kilt-wearers we are aware of so all advice is valued. Also I must have some Yorkshire blood(not that I know of) bur still have short arms and long pockets so the budget for occasionally worn clothes is definitely not bottomless- hence the white socks question. I know others suggest black socks but is this not just white socks by another name? I am not sure that I want to look like or am even qualified to look like a seasoned kiltie and, from what I have seen, white socks seem pretty mainstream.

If you want hose that go with everything, get charcoal. Just as neutral as white, in terms of color, and never "wrong," but somehow more interesting.

White hose are (or were) mainstream for pipe bands and rental outfits. I, personally, bought a bunch of hose in other colors because I was in a pipe band for years and don't want to wear a uniform again. But that is just my personal preference.