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28th April 05, 11:55 AM
#31
As a rule people are not Scottish, they are Scots and unfortunatly even this term is meaningless as anyone who is from scotland is British, or more accuratly a British Subject, My Driving licence and passport all say Im British- nowhere can I produce an official document saying Im a Scot-the same goes for English and Welsh people, this is a sore point to all concerned in fact my drving licence has a European flag and UK emblazened in the middle so according to my driving licence Im a UK and European citizen and Im also a British subject. so really Im British not a Scot.
Of course unofficially we call ourselves Scots or English or Welsh but its simply stating where you were born or where you live.
I meet a lot of Tourists from America and Canada of Scots descent and its great that despite generations of their family being born elsewhere they still see Scotland as where the roots of their family lie.
but I see those tourists as Scot-ish rather than being Scots which is a fair description. the Celtic race is a fair description of Scots/Irish and Welsh peoples, however most people are "mongrols" of one sort or another, I think Hitler showed us where trying to keep our race "pure" gets us!!!
I think were getting a little deep- you dont really need a reason for wearing the Kilt other than they are soooo cool!!!
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28th April 05, 12:02 PM
#32
Matt,
First I know I haven't found anything either and many people I know wish they could find his evidence. in the mean time I am willing go a little on faith and give the benefit of the doubt. is it beyond reason it could have been and we didn't find anything yet? sure. could I be off my rocker and believing a fantasy? just as certainly. But like I said I am going a little on faith and it is just a gut feeling I have.
As to the Pan-Celtic phenomenon I think chacbalam has it close to how I see it. But I would also add that for many, many years, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Manx and native English Celts suffered in one form or another, and at times from each other. I am very proud of my Irish heritage but let's be honest, Irish were fighters. Take the history between Scottish military against there own, and the Irish and you have a "family" feud. I think it has become recently more attractive for Scots, Irish, Welsh, and Manx to realize they were cousins, if not closer related and celebrate their commanalities. Perhaps the kilt came along for the ride indirectly. I can't say for certain about the Manx, but the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish were treated less than well by the English powers that be. I think there may also be a bit of a bigger clan idea in it, us/them. We're not English we're Celts! I personally have mostly Irish heritage, with some Scot. I consider other Celts the way I consider Irish, same family different name.
So did I ramble away into incoherence or did that make some kind of sense? Also take into account that is my opinion, and it could well be I am talking out of my...
but maybe not.
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28th April 05, 12:03 PM
#33
Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome
I was just curious as to why there has been this perception shift that the kilt is a general celtic garment, rather than a specific Scottish garment.
Is it because people (usually those who stand to make a few dollars off of outfit and cloth sales) are promoting the (false) notion that ancient Welsh, Irish, etc., people wore the kilt? Or are people promoting use of the kilt by these other national groups because that perception already existed and they are just taking advantage of it?
Matt
I'm not Scottish. I was born in England. I just find it simpler to tell folks who ask if I'm Scottish that "yes, I do have a Celtic background". They accept that, and I don't have any further explaining to do. I guess that makes me part of the perception shift.
Cheers
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28th April 05, 12:07 PM
#34
I apologize if I got us slightly off topic. But I agree perception is part of it. Not to mention even if recently (100 years or so) people in Ireland have worn kilts, the perception is "oh Irish have kilts as well!" and then it spread that it's celtic. But Ricky is right. Cool is reason enough for me. And It looks GOOD! 8)
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28th April 05, 12:11 PM
#35
the question
The question is not what we consider ourselves; but rather why we wear the kilt. Those of us in America are Americans. I never say "I'm Scottish."
In regard to the kilt, there are a lot of us who wear it because we are of Scottish descent. We are not claiming to be "Scottish." When I say "Scottish descent," I am NOT saying Celtic. This descent includes ancestors from Scotland who are descendants of the Normans, Scots, etc. That is why I do not like the use of the word "Celtic," especially in regard to the use of the kilt.
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28th April 05, 12:41 PM
#36
I'm a mutt.
Maternal grandmothers side of the family is Halls (border clan), Piercys (Northumbria) and McKnights (Ulster Scots)
Maternal Grandfathers side is all Swedes and Danes..Kindall and Koenig.
Paternal Grandfathers side is all Canadian French, traced back to Heberts in France as far back as 1605
Paternal Grandmother's name "Snyder" born 1900 in North Carolina. Dunno more than that. I ought to look it up.
So I'm a polymutt. I just happen to choose to wear a kilt now and again 'cause I like it and I'm interestd it the Scottish end of things. Besides, I've got a red beard.
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28th April 05, 12:46 PM
#37
A very good question, why do I wear the kilt?
I think primarily because I identify most with the Scottish (Scots) portion of my ancestry, but also -
They ARE damn cool, and.....
they make me feel like a man!!! I don't know why I think that's funny.... just say it the right way and it is.....
dang I is in a weird mood......
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28th April 05, 12:53 PM
#38
I must admit I do find its stretching things a little when you have born and bred Canadians or Americans claiming to be Scottish- like Ive said before a more accurate term is american or Canadian of scots descent, or Scots American or Scots Canadian
I think the culture your born into our brought up with is what makes you who you are-Prime minister Tony Blair is a good example he was born in Edinburgh to english parents, but he moved I think to australia at one stage, he went to eton college and had elocution lessons to rid him of his accent, despite being born in Scotland Blair is not a Scot hes spent his whole life running away from his Scots background -hes English in every way! because thats the culture he chooses to identify with
seriously I hate labels so you just be who you want to be
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28th April 05, 12:56 PM
#39
I prefer European-American, as that describes the area of my ancestors (in the widest sense), and my birth country.....
Sometimes, tho, @$$hole is a better descriptor!!!!
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28th April 05, 01:45 PM
#40
Historically speaking, I've read that plaid type cloth was common to most Celtic peoples. Today, plaid and tartan are associated in the public mind with kilts. I think that's where the pan celtic identity comes from.Some mummies found in China were dressed in plaids, but that plaid was primarily a type of cloak or shirt, not kilts. They were identified as celtic in origin of northern European origin by the racial characteristics and the type of wool in the clothing.
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