Scottish Swords

[puffer]

I am no expert on this subject, but I do have a "wee" bit of Knowledge gleaned over the years.
For starters go here. The people on this site are EXPERTS, IMHO http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/index.php
Having said that, here are my thoughts. IMHO

1. The ?? of what is a "claymore or isn't is one that will be "debated" forever.
A. I think that Woodshead's orig. explanation is "spot on"
B. But I refer to the 2 "types as ""great Sword" (both the 2 handed & 1 1/2 ) & " Basket Hilt.

2. Origins of the Basket Hilt
A. They orig. from Eur. ( most likely they were from the Germanic areas)
B. the baskets on the early ones were not as "massive" as we now think of when we think Highland Basket hilts.
3. The "style the English & the Lowlanders adopted were sim. to this


4. The Highland Basket Hilt
A. the Highlanders "Baskets were/are more "massive" (reflects the style of fighting = "SMASH FACE"
B. Some say the Highlander's adapted the Eng/Lowland styles, others say they brought them back from their mercenary complains. ( me ?? = poss. both)
BTW the blades of a GOOD Highland Basket Hilt was from the Germanic areas.

Here are mine ( ALL are SHARP)
#1 the "standard" Brass "regimental" . ( Brass was used by the Brit. Gov. because of cost. Imho only inexpensive Sword had a brass hilt) Steel = Quality)

#2 is my "Cold Steel" Basket hilt (a Generic style . Note the basket is blued, which many of the finer ones were.)

#3 My "semi-custom" from Armor Class (an "S" hilt')

#4 is a "SWORD in progress" from Armor Class. This will "reflect" an ENG/Lowland. Style.

I hope this gives you some "FOOD FOR THOUGHT"

Puffer

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Further to Puffer's notes above, there is a good argument to made that the Scottish basket hilt sword may trace it roots back to, of all places, Montenegro! Lord Archibald Campbell (in Highland Dress, Arms and Ornament) thought enough of this theory to include the whole of a letter which appeared in The Times on July 17, 1894 in which the author, W.J. Stillman, writing from Rome, put forward a very convincing case that the origins of the Scottish basket hilt sword were the Venetian Schiavone, which was imported to that city by Zetans (from present day Montenego) who were mercenaries employed by the Doge to keep the roads open in those areas of the Balkans where trade was conducted overland, rather than by sea.

Likewise, as Puffer stated, many, if not most, "good blades" came from Germany, but there is ample evidence that the Scots prized their "good Spanish blades" above all others. Likewise, the most famous blades were those made by Andrea Ferrara, a Lombard, born about 1530, and recognized as a premier sword smith by Giovan Mattheo Cigogna in his Tratto Militare published in Venice in 1583. In point of fact Ferrara was probably dead by 1610, but knock-offs of his blades continued to be manufactured until at least the first quarter of the 18th century. Most of these were made in Germany, where blade making had become a major industry, and to help sales in the "Schottich" market, many were marked "Andrea Ferarra" (rather like the rash of Chinese swords now flooding the market bearing the name and logo of the (now defunct) Wilkinson Sword Company).

[Howard Clark]

Some things never change.

[Malcolm MacWilliam]

Great info here! I own three basket hilts: one broadsword and two backswords. My one backsword is a Mad Piper (Donnie Shearer) http://www.themadpiper.com/ My broadsword is marked Andrea Ferrara (not original, of course, but it's a good blade!!).

When doing Jacobite we all wear swords; doing F and I (Amercan Seven Years War) many of us wear them (they were beginning to lose their use and charm here in N. America among the Highland troops at that time) and for Rev. War, only Sjts. and higher rank will wear their swords (swords were put in stores when landing in NYC in 1776 because the musket had gained most prominence).

[Jack Daw]

The National Trust for Scotland has determined that the following are the correct terms for Scottish swords:

"claidheamh mor" - basket-hilted broadsword or "Claymore"

"claidheamh cuil" - basket-hilted backsword (single edged)

"claidheamh da laimh" - two-handed sword, often incorrectly called Claymore

The term "claybeg" is modern; there is no evidence of historic usage of "claybeg"....

As far as I'm concerned, this is the way to go. Now, my gaelic is a bit rusty; so, the two-handed sword would be pronounced roughly as, 'clay de lay'?

[thanmuwa]

As far as I'm concerned, this is the way to go. Now, my gaelic is a bit rusty; so, the two-handed sword would be pronounced roughly as, 'clay de lay'?

By my reckoning, the "da" (meaning two) should really have an accent and be pronounced as "daw" with the d sound made with the tongue at the back of your teeth (a kind of softer d, halfway to a "th"). At least that is how it is done in Irish, although we would pronounce it "Clive daw law-v", our "mh" almost always being sounded as a v......

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The National Trust for Scotland has determined that the following are the correct terms for Scottish swords:

"claidheamh mor" - basket-hilted broadsword or "Claymore"

"claidheamh cuil" - basket-hilted backsword (single edged)

"claidheamh da laimh" - two-handed sword, often incorrectly called Claymore

The term "claybeg" is modern; there is no evidence of historic usage of "claybeg"....

The above nomenclature was (arbitrarily?) assigned to swords by the staff of the NTS, and is at variance with the terminology used by the majority of sword collectors and historians, admittedly in English. In this instance I believe the NTS was trying to be "all things to all people" and was using Scots Gaelic in the literal sense, rather than following the accepted names used for identifying Scottish swords. Claybeg was used by Scots to describe (often in a disrespectful way) the small swords worn by 18th century gentleman.

[puffer]

Further to Puffer's notes above, there is a good argument to made that the Scottish basket hilt sword may trace it roots back to, of all places, Montenegro! Lord Archibald Campbell (in Highland Dress, Arms and Ornament) thought enough of this theory to include the whole of a letter which appeared in The Times on July 17, 1894 in which the author, W.J. Stillman, writing from Rome, put forward a very convincing case that the origins of the Scottish basket hilt sword were the Venetian Schiavone, which was imported to that city by Zetans (from present day Montenego) who were mercenaries employed by the Doge to keep the roads open in those areas of the Balkans where trade was conducted overland, rather than by sea.
.

More on the above. NOTE- info is from this site. http://www.myarmoury.com/

Again there is, as always some "discussion" as to who influenced whom & how. But It appears that the "S.Ger/Venetian types were the "forerunners".



Some examples of "later" style (ca 1700s) SCHIAVONAs



Here are some examples of "GER." (late ca 1500s- ???)



This is a "documented" GER. style used in the Eng/Lowland Borderland. (ca 1570s



Puffer

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Great illustrations Puffer.

For those who may not be up to speed, the SCHIAVONI are Slavs, from the region now known as Montenegro, who were employed as mercenaries by the Doge of Venice. By 1500 a sufficient number of them were living in Venice to warrant the building of an Orthodox Church, dedicated to St. Griorgio and St. Trifonio (now known as St. Giorgio dei Schiavoni). Arriving in Venice in the 1400s the Schiavoni brought with them their distinctive basket hilt broadswords, which quickly found favour through out much of Europe, including-- possibly-- the Scottish highlands.

Sword scholars have debated the evolution of the Scottish broadsword for more than a century, with as many declaring for the Schiavona as the precursor to the Scottish basket hilt as those who argue against it. It is my opinion that the Schiavona migrated north-westerly from Venice to Germany, beginning sometime in the 1400s, and from Germany the Schiavona made its way to Scotland. As the popularity of the broadsword increased, and the usefulness of the old, two handed, claymore waned, local artisans imported finished blades from Germany and made their own hilts which eventually evolved into the "classic" basket hilt of the 17th and 18th centuries.

[Howard Clark]

You guys have explained this very well. Thanks.

I am way better at the curvy ones. Though I do fancy having a go at this (basket hilt and double edged) one of these days, when I am not so far behind...

I rather like your opinion MacMillan.

Swords are cool. You have a couple of very nice ones there, Puffer. The work from Armor Class is first rate !