MacMillan modern black tartan

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

My understanding:

I saw MacMillan modern black offered as a tartan.
I order a kilt in said tartan.
1 year later I find that the Clan Chief does not recognize the tartan.
My problem is not with my Clan Chief. It is with the folks that led me to believe it was a clan tartan, not a fashion tartan.

As an aside.. it is a kick-*** tartan. The Chief says I can wear and not promote it.
I do offer an apology to any who selected this tartan on my word.

Jack

Jack-- I have to agree with everything you've said, except the part about the apology. None is expected or asked for. You are a stand up guy in our Clan, and you certainly have all of our respect. And you're right. It is a KA tartan!
Scott

[BoldHighlander]

I don't get the whole idea of individuals (either corporate or sole) thinking they can invent "new" clan tartans without first asking for the chief's approval.

Is this strictly a USA thing? I mean I don't blame Reay one bit for not responding. How do you politely respond to the affront of being told "We don't like your family tartans all that much, so we've designed a new one. Now approve it." I think Reay deserves a medal for forbearance.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me in the matter of ignoring one's Chief when deciding to "create" clan traditions-- like tartans. I just don't get it.

I would've responded sooner but was away until a short while ago.

First off "they" did not tell him any of the sort. You have spoken out of turn on a subject that I am much more well acquainted with than you, and you have put words in "our" mouths that were never ever expressed!!

The short of it is this:
The "Dress Mackay" was designed by the Reverend John B. Pahls, Jr. in the year 2000 to mark the 125th anniversary of the succession of the Dutch cadet line to the chiefship of the Clan in 1875, & a PRESENTATION SAMPLE was woven; the Right Honourable the Lord Reay, Baron Mackay van Ophemert, Chief of the Name and Clan of Mackay was ASKED for his approval (NOT told), he has not replied (yet), and so after an approximate 8 year wait since this tartan was first created, the society has taken the step to have it registered as an "unofficial" & "personal" tartan.

As it is, the tartans approved by the Chief of the Mackays are much beloved by his American kinsmen & worn enthusiastically (and to date not a single kilt of the "new" tartan has been made....yet).

[BoldHighlander]

. Or it might be that he thought it was just plain butt-ugly, but was too polite to say so.

So what exactly are you implying about the tartan?

...and people wonder how clan grudges get started(?!)

[Larry124]

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I wonder.

A Chief has authority. And duties. Perhaps a duty to respond?
And in a reasonable (courteous) amount of time?
Authority to “decline to respond” I concede, but that does not seem right to me. Why would the Chief treat a clan society in such a way?

See “Pocket Veto” at Wikipedia. Something like that?
Or the famous Scottish: Guilty / Not Guilty / Not Proven. Something like that?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

There is a danger of thinking of tartan too analogously with heraldry. One can only take these analogies so far. Simply put, tartan is not heraldic. Never has been, historically. And even though people tend to think of it as an heraldic badge of sorts today, it simply is not so. Comparing tartan to heraldry is like comparing apples & pears.

The point that I specifically want to make here is that recording a tartan with the Scottish Tartans Authority does not imply anything one way or another about that tartan being approved by the clan chief, or any other authoritative body. Firstly, it is incorrect, technically, to speak of "registering" a tartan with the STA. They do not "register" tartans. They record them.

The function of their International Tartan Index is to provide as complete a record as possible of tartan designs. This means all manner of tartans are included that may or may not have any stamp of approval from a governing body. If fashion variants of the MacMillan tartan that have been dreamed up by textile designers with no consultation with the MacMillan chief are included, why not this new "dress Mackay?"

I have to come to Terry's defence here. Whether or not the Lord Reay ever decides to formally accept or reject this tartan design, recording it in the ITI is a logical step. It provides an historic record of the tartan -- who designed it, when it was designed, why it was designed, whom it was woven by, etc. Later on down the road, if Lord Reay expresses an opinion about it, that information will also be added to the historic record. Even if it is just to say "the clan chief does not regard this as a proper clan tartan."

Let's say that Lord Reay eventually expresses a negative opinion on this tartan. Then 20 years from now someone in Vancouver decides to create a dress MacKay tartan. He could consult the ITI and discover that this idea has already been tried and the tartan rejected by the chief.

Or more to the point, let's say that L. L. Bean decides to create and market "Dress MacKay" tartan flannel shirts. And the Rev. Pahls and/or the Clan MacKay Society USA want to challenge this, claiming the design is theirs. The inclusion of the tartan in the ITI provides record of who created this design and when.

In short, there are all manner of reasons why someone would want a tartan recorded with the STA, and doing so should not be read to imply anything, one way or another, about the standing of that tartan with the clan cheif, or the opinion of the clan society for their titled head.

[BoldHighlander]

Firstly, it is incorrect, technically, to speak of "registering" a tartan with the STA. They do not "register" tartans. They record them.

Thank you for correcting me on the terminology Matt.

[Bellfree]

I found this at the Tartanstore website. It looks like the earlier posted tartan but is called MacMillan Hunting Muted:
http://tartanstore.net/tartan/MacMil...mily_name=Macm
It looks much like the tartan referred to as MacMillan Black, doesn't it?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I found this at the Tartanstore website. It looks like the earlier posted tartan but is called MacMillan Hunting Muted:
http://tartanstore.net/tartan/MacMil...mily_name=Macm
It looks much like the tartan referred to as MacMillan Black, doesn't it?

It's definitely NOT MacMillan Hunting-- and it's definitely NOT a MacMillan tartan.

[Graywolf]

Let's get over this. The clan chief has official final word on his clan tartan. That does not prevent you from wearing any tartan you want, whether approved or not. I, as a traditionalist, would not go against the wishes of my clan chief at any official function. But, I as a kilt wearer, can wear whatever I want in any unofficial capacity.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Let's get over this. The clan chief has official final word on his clan tartan. That does not prevent you from wearing any tartan you want, whether approved or not. I, as a traditionalist, would not go against the wishes of my clan chief at any official function. But, I as a kilt wearer, can wear whatever I want in any unofficial capacity.

Graywolf, nobody has said "you can't wear this tartan". As far as I am concerned a person can wrap a tea-towel around his waist if he wants to. The point I am making, and that our Chief has made, is that this so-called "MacMillan" tartan isn't a MacMillan tartan at all. To call it a "Modern MacMillan" or "Muted MacMillan Hunting" or "Black MacMillan" (all names under which it has been offered to the public) is simply not true. I have not yet had a opportunity to examine a sample of the fabric, however I am advised that it appears to be a bastardized version of Buchanan.