Are kilts only for the rich? rant.

[osric the pale]

Rant begins...
Personally I couldn't care less about being percieved as rich or poor by my mode of dress,but I am on a very limited budget and still wish to be kilted,so i wear what i can afford.
PROUDLY!
My girlfriend is allergic to wool and LOVES a man in a kilt, so it's acryllic for me.
The service from
Stillwater has proven superlative time and again,the products fit my needs and my budget, so there ya go.
On the other hand I make things by hand and know how much pride and hard work go into such things.
Those I have made knives for are proud to have them...THAT FEELS GREAT!!!
I feel that any worthy endeavor will have a cost and I will save up, or learn that skill,or barter for what I want, BUT that cost is bourne by ME.
All opinions are welcome and most are appreciated, but the final cost and descision are mine.
Set your own standards and look for no insult in those of others and you will be much happier.
End of rant...
~oz

[davedove]

I understand your point of view, but I don't see the forum as you do. It seems to me that for every "kilt snob" who seems to look down on the less-expensive and contemporary kilts, there is another who feels that the traditionalists are old-fashioned and a slave to the "kilt rules".

I guess we all see things from our own viewpoint. It's just the way things are.

[macwilkin]

I understand your point of view, but I don't see the forum as you do. It seems to me that for every "kilt snob" who seems to look down on the less-expensive and contemporary kilts, there is another who feels that the traditionalists are old-fashioned and a slave to the "kilt rules".

I guess we all see things from our own viewpoint. It's just the way things are.

Spot on, Dave. Hector, you will see "reverse discrimination" on this forum. I've been a member for 4 years now, and trust me, it does happen. As Dave mentioned, traditionalists tend to take a bit of a bashing now and again because of our viewpoints on "proper" dress and our devotion to more traditional materials, etc.

What you wear is your business. My frugal grandmother raised me that we're "all Jock Tamson's bairns". But it goes both ways. I think folks sometimes make the assumption that all traditionalists are "kilt snobs" simply by how we dress, and isn't that a bit hypocritical? In my life, some of the most intolerant people I have ever met were the ones who claimed to be tolerant.

Just something to think about. I understand your frustration, but like your comment about "passive-aggressive" snipes, couldn't this thread be construed as one against those of us who choose to purchase the more expensive kilts?

And for the record, like Bradley, I have no problem with the PV and casual kilts. Maybe someday I will even own one.

Regards,

Todd

[LANCER1562]

As I tell my children, "What you want and what you will get, are two different things". I had wanted a "tank" in my clan tartan for years but couldn't afford it. When my mom died and left me a rather large sum of money, I did just what she told me to do. I used it for something I really wanted. I now have the "tank" I always wanted as well as a couple of contemporaries for knocking about so as not to ruin a $600 wool kilt. I wish I had known about Stillwater, Utilikilt, Frugal Corner, etc. years ago. I could have started wearing kilts that much sooner.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I always find threads of this nature interesting, if not at times a bit frustrating. As someone who is involved with kilts on all levels (and by that I mean as a maker, as a retailer of other makers, and as a regular wearer), it is always good for me to hear how people perceive the cost of kilts and Highland dress accessories.

Let's face it. All of us are at different economic levels. Some of us can afford a $600 kilt. Others have to scrimp and save for a $100 kilt. That's just the facts of life. And we can complain about how kilts are so expensive, but there have been various threads already on this forum about why this is so, and again -- that's just the way things are.

I might add that it's not just in the kilted world that one finds such a range of prices. I can go to Wal*Mart and get a pair of $20 blue jeans. I can also go to a posh downtown clothing store and pay ten times that amount for a pair of blue jeans. I don't own a pair of $200 jeans. But other people do. Fine.

One other factor in this equation is the "what is this worth to me?" question. I know people who earn quadruple what I do and yet a single kilt is too expensive for them, because they cannot justify the cost, personally. It's just not worth it to them. I also know people who earn less than I do who scrimp and save for a beautiful kilted formal outfit so that they can attend their annual Clan banquet in style -- because for them it is worth it. Everyone will have their own perspective on this point.

So I don't mind people who like the high-end fully tailored woolen kilts exclusively. And I don't mind the people who purchase the lower-end, off-the-peg, inexpensive kilts, either.

What I do mind are those who want everyone to believe that the less-expensive kilts are every bit as good as the more-expensive kilts. They are not. The old adage is true -- you get what you pay for. I wouldn't expect my $20 jeans to be the same quality as a pair of $200 jeans. To suggest so implies that the higher cost item is a rip off.

And maybe the $200 jeans are a rip-off. I don't know; I don't know jeans. But I do know kilts. And I can attest to the fact that most of your high-end kilts are sold at a price just above wholesale cost. There is a very slim profit margin. While most of your lower-end kilts are sold at a much, much higher profit margin.

In other words, your $500 kilt is problably worth $500. Your $80 kilt may really only be worth $20. One thing I do (and this is me speaking personally) is to look at an inexpensive kilt and try to evaluate it as if it were a lady's skirt. I mean the basic garment is a pleated, wrap around skirt. So I ask myself if this were in a department store being sold as a skirt, with the same material and construction details, would it demand the price it is being sold at as a kilt? My personal opinion is often no, it would not. There are a lot of cheap kilts out there that are being sold at higher prices than they are actually worth simply because they are being marketed as kilts, and people have the perception that kilts are expensive -- therefore a higher price is justified. So that kilt that may only be worth $20 is being sold for $80 or $100 because people will pay it.

Again, it is a question of perceived value. To me, $100 may be too expensive for a particular kilt, because I can look at it and evaluate it and judge it not to be worth $100. Whereas a $400 may not be too expensive because I know it is really worth the higher price.

Another poster on this thread boasted of having 26 kilts because he could take advantage of the less expensive options. If we assume that all of these were at the price point of a Stillwater standard, this would be about $2080 worth of kilts. For that price you could also have four or five really nice made-to-measure woolen kilts. And for most people, four or five quality kilts is more than enough. In fact, for most people, one or two kilts is plenty.

But it is a question of perceived value. Where do you want to spend your money? For some people that may be a lot of inexpensive kilts. For others, that may be only a few more high-end kilts. That's fine. We all know our budgets, we all know what we can afford, and we all know what our personal criteria for quality is.

Just my two cents!

[beloitpiper]

Another poster on this thread boasted of having 26 kilts because he could take advantage of the less expensive options. If we assume that all of these were at the price point of a Stillwater standard, this would be about $2080 worth of kilts. For that price you could also have four or five really nice made-to-measure woolen kilts. And for most people, four or five quality kilts is more than enough. In fact, for most people, one or two kilts is plenty.

EXACTLY what I was going to say. Thank you, Matt, for putting it so eloquently.

And another thing, there are plenty of bargains all around you. At the Chicago Highland Games I bought two pairs of Argyle hose for a total of $70. $400-$500 value for $70. And while I could buy a $450 tweed kilt jacket, I just converted a $2.75 thrift store one. Nobody knows it is a conversion until I tell them it is. So it's not just buying expensive, it is buying smart. I own wool kilts (save for the two Frugal Corner ones that were free) because I shop smart and buy thrifty.

Thrifty isn't about cheap, it's about quality. What's more thrifty, a $2 screwdriver that I'll have to replace ever year, or a $7 screwdriver with a lifetime warranty? Yes, the initial investment will be higher, but the overall savings definitely add up.

And don't give me the "low income" argument. I'm in college with bills to pay and a entry-level job at Target. I know it's tough but, if you'll allow me to boast, I think I've demonstrated that it is possible to get quality for less money.

[Phil]

What people nowadays tend to forget is that until recently any sort of clothing was not cheap. You didn't stroll into a mall and pick a cheap suit off a rail. Instead you visited a tailor, maybe even took your own cloth along, and he made you up a suit. Many farmers kept a black sheep in their fields precisely to make up a dark cloth for their suit. And because this tailor didn't employ child labour in some low-wage sweatshop in some third world country his suit didn't come cheap. It did last a lifetime, however, so you didn't have to spend that kind of money often. The only people in those days, and I am only going back to the 1950's, who had many suits were the seriously rich ones and they would have had a wardrobe full to reflect their status in society. Just think how fortunate then we are nowadays when we can clothe ourselves for such little cost. But to whom?

[DWFII]

EXACTLY what I was going to say. Thank you, Matt, for putting it so eloquently.

Thrifty isn't about cheap, it's about quality. What's more thrifty, a $2 screwdriver that I'll have to replace ever year, or a $7 screwdriver with a lifetime warranty? Yes, the initial investment will be higher, but the overall savings definitely add up.

I used to teach fly fishing and fly tying. Every year I'd offer a class on Casting the Fly Rod. I'd contact all prospective students and give them a flyer that detailed what would be needed for the class. among those items was a list of good quality rods at different price levels...starting with a full outfit right around $100.00 made by Fenwick ( a leading name in fly rod technology).

Inevitably, about 30% of the students would show up for the first day of class with an Eagle Claw Spin & Fly combo. After they had purchased the reel and the line, these students probably had close to, if not slightly more invested in their equipment, than if they had purchased the Fenwick package.

BUT!!! Not a single one of those individuals with their Ace Hardware Eagle Claws ever learned to cast a rod or ever went on to actually become a fly fisherman.

Why? Because no one can cast with a fly/spin combo. The rod isn't engineered to do either job correctly.

So...the upshot? The virtuously frugal student ended up spending as much or more than the students who took the instructor's advice to heart...but wasted it all.

They didn't learn to cast, so the class fees were lost. The rod was useless so the rod and the reel and the line costs were lost. And the time spent attending a six week class was also wasted.

The only thing of significance that was acquired was another heaping helping of frustration and disappointment. Enough of those helpings and it becomes a lifelong habit.

The moral? "Thrifty isn't about cheap, it's about quality."

[hospitaller]

And don't give me the "low income" argument. I'm in college with bills to pay and a entry-level job at Target. I know it's tough but, if you'll allow me to boast, I think I've demonstrated that it is possible to get quality for less money.

I am not giving you anything. I do not have a low income. I am not a college student. I am 39. I am married. I have a house. And I have a sick wife that can not work and I have to maintain.

Boast all you want.

This is not the intent of my original post, and I will not allow you to turn it into your own personal showcase.

Thank you very much.

Moderators, if you please.

[Panache]

...Moderators, if you please.

I am asuming that Hector would prefer his thread closed at this point (if not drop me or one of the other Moderators a PM and we will reopen it)


Cheers

Jamie