Waistcoat and belt

[Carolina Kiltman]

One brief addendum here: Many (most?) of the young highland dancers wear braces, as pre-teens tend to have no hips! I didn't wear a belt to keep my trousers up until I was about 14 or so. . . . . for that very reason.

[svc40bt]

Well, before I saw Macmillan's post, I put buttons on my kilt...just as I described in my previous remarks. And guess what? It works! And it looks fantastic! It even looks kind of good without the waistcoat over it.

Funny, the first time I ever put on a kilt...and before I had added the belt and sporran and the hose... I kind of recoiled at what I saw in the mirror, 'cuz all by itself it looks like a skirt. But add the braces and even without all that other stuff it looks less like a skirt and more like a man's garment.

I may try the button arrangement that MacMillan described later, if only because it is a bit tricky to button up although I wear button-on braces 24 hours a day anyway...kilt or no kilt...so it's no big deal buttoning them for me.

And the bonus is that I can wear my Scotland's National with my waistcoat for Burns Night!

How about pictures of the button placement and wearing the braces with the kilt?

I may still make a waistcoat, short with straight hem to try out my theory, with some inexpensive fabric. If I do I will post pics for you good folks to comment on.

[Panache]

... as pre-teens tend to have no hips! I didn't wear a belt to keep my trousers up until I was about 14 or so. . . . . for that very reason.

OK, fess up everyone...

How many read this and nodded sadly murmuring to themselves "I remember that so long ago too.."

sigh

Jamie

[Bugbear]

People, especially those cruel girls, will sneak up behind you and try to snap the braces on your back (even if they aren't elastic) while giggling at you, so I suggest always wearing a waistcoat or jacket over them. Personal experience from growing up and wearing braces.

[svc40bt]

Let me be blunt and ask if you strap your belt under your gut? If you do, that would explain why you are having problems keeping the kilt in place. The kilt, like trousers, is designed to properly go around your natural waist, not under your tummy. If you are wearing your kilt around your waist (and by this I mean with the top of the kilt pretty much parallel with the floor), and you are still having slippage problems, then you need to wear braces to hold it in place (assuming, of course that the kilt is properly tailored, and fits).

Braces for kilts need to be fairly wide, at least and inch and a quarter in my experience. You will have to install six buttons on your kilt, and these should be placed as follows: two centered on the back, preferably inside the waistband about two inches apart and one inch below the top of the kilt; the other four go on the inside flap of the kilt, roughly in line with your nipples. These should be spaced the same as the two in the back, ie: an inch down and about two inches apart. The buttons need to be on the outside of the inner flap for two reasons: (1) they will need to be "backed" or reinforced on the opposite side of the flap to take the strain; (2) they are easier to "do up" if they are on the outside of the flap.

Like Jamie, McMurdo, and others have said, a belt isn't worn with a waistcoat, so if I were you I'd skip it, especially if you have a tendency to fasten it under your gut as this only accentuates the size of your tummy. Big time.

The danger of a flat bottomed waistcoat is that unless it is cut with sufficient length your shirt will have a tendency to show through the gaps as you walk, bend, or sit. This is more apt to occur with large men than with those of average or slender builds.

As posted elsewhere (and often):

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree-- rules exist to prevent people from making mistakes. To suggest that someone "ignore the rules" is to ignore the consequences of that advise. To tell anyone to "do as they wish as there are no rules" is, in my opinion, bad advice.

Please feel free to be blunt. The answer is no, I wear it around my waist, 1-2" above the navel. Trousers about 1" below the navel. Things want to slide down to the hip bones and under the gut. The broad belt helps, but either kilt or trousers require an occasional adjustment.

Braces are better at keeping things at the right level, but I like the look of the stout belt with the kilt, and it serves the additional practical purpose of providing someplace to mount my cell phone holster and work id holder.

In the end I probably will never get around to making a waistcoat, but you never know.

[Phil]

There are commercially available waistcoat patterns - my wife made me one which I have posted photos of previously. It is a high-buttoned design unlike the PC waistcoat and it is not usual to wear a belt over it. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule such as the gentleman clad in tartan from head to toe pictured earlier. I'm not sure that is the best example of highland dress however.

[caig]

I say again - there are no rules. Wearing a kilt is not the same as putting on a military (or other orgaisation such as a pipe band) uniform, where the wearer has to conform to some rules. There is no reason at all why someone should not wear a kilt in an individual way - whether that is against what might be seen as a social practice, or not. As my original post stated - just look at my Clan Chief (and he should know !).

[JSFMACLJR]

There are, of course, exceptions to every rule such as the gentleman clad in tartan from head to toe pictured earlier. I'm not sure that is the best example of highland dress however.

What makes you come to this conclusion?

Kind regards,
Sandford

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I say again - there are no rules. Wearing a kilt is not the same as putting on a military (or other orgaisation such as a pipe band) uniform, where the wearer has to conform to some rules. There is no reason at all why someone should not wear a kilt in an individual way - whether that is against what might be seen as a social practice, or not. As my original post stated - just look at my Clan Chief (and he should know !).

I think you are wrong here.

I don't think citing a single individual (chief or not) sets the acceptable standard of highland dress. While one is free to express individuality in wearing the kilt (as your Chief has done, and by the way he knows the rules), there are rules-- FOR EXAMPLE: Pleats are worn across the back of the kilt, not the front.

Now I am as willing as the next man to laugh at some poor bugger who has made a complete *** of himself with his kilt down to his ankles, sporran across his butt, and pleats to the front -- IF he knew that that's not how the kilt is worn. On the other hand, if he was dressed like a refugee from a stranded roadshow company of Brigadoon because he didn't know the rules, I wouldn't laugh I'd try to set him straight on how to wear the kilt. I'd tell him the "rules" so folks wouldn't laugh at him behind his back.

Like I've said before, telling someone that there are "no rules" is giving them bad advice. I'd put it on a par with tossing a 16-year old the keys to the car without first making sure he knew the rules of the road. It might work out okay, but then again, it might not.

There are rules. Once you know every single one of them, then you can begin to experiment. Not before.

[DWFII]

[snip]There are rules. Once you know every single one of them, then you can begin to experiment. Not before.

I sure like the way you think. I agree with you 100%.