A Modern Scottish View of Clans (and Gathering)

[Riverkilt]

I recently saw a term that I really really liked, "Descendent of Scottish Emigrants."

I suppose I could also call myself a descendent of Scandanavian emigrants - the Vikings that my DNA goes back to, Sons of Somerled and all that.

For sure a descendent of Scottish Emigrants due to The Clearances.

Even a descendent of Canadian Emigrants when my Great grandfather Archibald Macdonald left Cape Breton Island to seek his fortune in the gold fields of Colorado, California, and ultimately Montana.

Maybe instead of claiming a connection to my blood clans I should just claim I am descended from folks who first invaded, then were kicked out.

Whatever the case I have decided to support you brother Alex and firmly refuse to travel to the Homecoming events this year. Course, couldn't afford the trip anyhow....but still, stand with you Alex.

Ron

[vmac3205]

It's interesting the members of Clan MacKenzie were not encouraged to attend the Homecoming. The Chief (yes, we still have one, Lord Cromarty of Castle Leod in Strathpeffer) the Donald McKenzie from the USA and several others will be in attendance, but there will not be a "clan gathering" associated with the homecoming.

[dfmacliam]

I find this thread to be very informative and helps understand the beliefs of those in Scotland. I also know that a sense of belonging to something greater is important to so many in the States.
For years, other ethnicities have openly celebrated their heritage, to the point of seeing clothing belonging on another continent, is common. America is a melting pot of ethnicities and cultures, and there is no true American culture. People have come, to escape the hardships and servitude from the Old Country, and to make a life for themselves. They brought with them their love of their homelands, many of those from Scotland. You study the American South and you find the similarity of Scotland... The names, dialect( the Appalachian dialect is said a form of the Scots language).. The flags of the Civil War, the famed Stars and Bars Battle Flag, Alabama State flag is actually the St Patricks Cross (I know that's Irish) as well as others.
True, there is a romantizied view of what Scotland means to people these days, but it comes from the love of the Country that the forefathers brought with them, not the reasons for the leaving of the land, the servitude, the hardships.
I understand exactly what has happened because of my own personal life. I am a first generation American, a naturalized American. My family comes from Ireland by way of England... I am first generation who was not taught Gaelic, I was not sent to Catholic Church, I was actually made to fit into the American way of life. I was later told, it was because my mother did not want me to experience the wrongs she had to, growing up Irish Catholic in England.
I am proud to be Irish(descent) and I wish I had the chance to learn what was kept from me. I will wear my Saffron kilt, identifying myself as being Irish and enjoy the company of those like minded people... Who shares their love of being Scots, Irish, Welsh, Cornish, or whatever Celtic peoples they are descended from..
I respect the views of those from Scotland, and I have learned from them... I hope to learn more about my Scots family...

[macwilkin]

You study the American South and you find the similarity of Scotland... The names, dialect( the Appalachian dialect is said a form of the Scots language).. The flags of the Civil War, the famed Stars and Bars Battle Flag, Alabama State flag is actually the St Patricks Cross (I know that's Irish) as well as others.

The Confederate saltire was not based on the St. Andrew's Cross, at least according to its designer, William P. Miles. It is a saltire, but that is a common device in heraldry, and not always associated with Scotland. Miles wanted a distinctive flag not based upon the US flag, although some ridiculed his design as a "pair of braces".

BTW, the "Stars and Bars" is not the "Battle flag" (which in itself is not correct). The former refers to the First National Flag of the CSA, whilst the latter can refer to a myriad of flags used by Confederate forces.

Regards,

Todd

[Deil the Yin]

I find this thread to be very informative and helps understand the beliefs of those in Scotland. I also know that a sense of belonging to something greater is important to so many in the States.
For years, other ethnicities have openly celebrated their heritage, to the point of seeing clothing belonging on another continent, is common. America is a melting pot of ethnicities and cultures, and there is no true American culture. People have come, to escape the hardships and servitude from the Old Country, and to make a life for themselves. They brought with them their love of their homelands, many of those from Scotland. You study the American South and you find the similarity of Scotland... The names, dialect( the Appalachian dialect is said a form of the Scots language).. The flags of the Civil War, the famed Stars and Bars Battle Flag, Alabama State flag is actually the St Patricks Cross (I know that's Irish) as well as others.
True, there is a romantizied view of what Scotland means to people these days, but it comes from the love of the Country that the forefathers brought with them, not the reasons for the leaving of the land, the servitude, the hardships.
I understand exactly what has happened because of my own personal life. I am a first generation American, a naturalized American. My family comes from Ireland by way of England... I am first generation who was not taught Gaelic, I was not sent to Catholic Church, I was actually made to fit into the American way of life. I was later told, it was because my mother did not want me to experience the wrongs she had to, growing up Irish Catholic in England.
I am proud to be Irish(descent) and I wish I had the chance to learn what was kept from me. I will wear my Saffron kilt, identifying myself as being Irish and enjoy the company of those like minded people... Who shares their love of being Scots, Irish, Welsh, Cornish, or whatever Celtic peoples they are descended from..
I respect the views of those from Scotland, and I have learned from them... I hope to learn more about my Scots family...

How fitting that you live in Cleburne, Texas! Is that perchance named after the Confederate General Cleburne (who was Irish himself)?

[dfmacliam]

How fitting that you live in Cleburne, Texas! Is that perchance named after the Confederate General Cleburne (who was Irish himself)?

That is exactly who the town is named after, the Texas troops from the area served under him.

[beloitpiper]

I'm very proud to be a Gordon, but I will not join the Clan Gordon society. Why should I? I go to the Highland Games and various Scottish events every year and hang out with my fellow clansmen, so why should I pay to get a card that says I'm a Gordon and tell me to go events that I already attend? I know I'm linked to the House of Gordon, what more needs to be done?

As far as the Chief, I am a product of Clearances emigrants, but I don't hold it against Lord Huntly. In fact, I think it would be kinda neat to meet the Chief.

Also, I love to Romanticize Scotland, but I don't pretend like that is what happened. Sure, it's fun to think about the Jacobite Rebellion as a fight between the English and the Scots, but I'd be a damn fool if I pretended like that was AT ALL true. Just like it's more entertaining and dramatic to think of my ancestors being driven from their ancestral homeland from the evil Whoevers during the Clearances, but I know that in reality it was Gordon who removed them for land. Does this mean I'll renounce my ties with the House of Gordon? No way! It's a part of my heritage, and while I'm not about to join the Society and fly to Scotland for the Gathering, I'll proudly wear the Gordon tartan, play Cock O' The North on my pipes, and have a great time at the Gordon tent at the Highland Games every year.

[macwilkin]

I'm very proud to be a Gordon, but I will not join the Clan Gordon society. Why should I? I go to the Highland Games and various Scottish events every year and hang out with my fellow clansmen, so why should I pay to get a card that says I'm a Gordon and tell me to go events that I already attend? I know I'm linked to the House of Gordon, what more needs to be done?

Have you researched what membership dues in the society are used for, and what benefits members received? Remember that many clan societies use dues to not only "keep the lights on" as it were, but to fund genealogical research databases, clan museums and donate funds to charitable causes and to historic preservation. For example, the House of Gordon USA donates funds to the Gordon Highlanders Museum in Aberdeen (a very worthy cause) and also provides a scholarship fund to youth studying Scottish arts -- just think, if you had been a member, you might have qualified for it, and I don't know of any college students who would turn down a scholarship.

Our clan society, for example, helps sponsor a pipe band in Aberdeen, including their youth pipe band. I'm proud of the role we're playing (pun intended) in keeping piping alive in Scotland.

As far as the Chief, I am a product of Clearances emigrants, but I don't hold it against Lord Huntly. In fact, I think it would be kinda neat to meet the Chief.

Also, I love to Romanticize Scotland, but I don't pretend like that is what happened. Sure, it's fun to think about the Jacobite Rebellion as a fight between the English and the Scots, but I'd be a damn fool if I pretended like that was AT ALL true. Just like it's more entertaining and dramatic to think of my ancestors being driven from their ancestral homeland from the evil Whoevers during the Clearances, but I know that in reality it was Gordon who removed them for land. Does this mean I'll renounce my ties with the House of Gordon? No way! It's a part of my heritage, and while I'm not about to join the Society and fly to Scotland for the Gathering, I'll proudly wear the Gordon tartan, play Cock O' The North on my pipes, and have a great time at the Gordon tent at the Highland Games every year.

Don't forget, that tent you hang-out at at the games each year doesn't pay for itself. While some larger clan societies are able to reimburse their convenors for expenses, the smaller clans certainly can't. I would bet your local Gordon rep. has spent anywhere from $500-1000 on his display to attract other Gordons and to educate them about their heritage; kinda makes $25 in yearly dues pale in comparison, eh?

And do you help out at the tent, or do you just hang out? I bet they could use you -- heck, you could even pipe at the tent to attract folks -- perhaps you could trade a yearly membership out of the deal.

Regards,

Todd

[beloitpiper]

Don't forget, that tent you hang-out at at the games each year doesn't pay for itself. While some larger clan societies are able to reimburse their convenors for expenses, the smaller clans certainly can't. I would bet your local Gordon rep. has spent anywhere from $500-1000 on his display to attract other Gordons and to educate them about their heritage; kinda makes $25 in yearly dues pale in comparison, eh?

And do you help out at the tent, or do you just hang out? I bet they could use you -- heck, you could even pipe at the tent to attract folks -- perhaps you could trade a yearly membership out of the deal.

Regards,

Todd

Oh, I pipe and "work" at the tent, talking to people looking to find out more about the clan. I'm great friends with the guys that work the tent in Wisconsin, and it's true that they've invested a lot of money, but it is not the Society's money. They did it on their own out of the love of their clan, just like I do.

And I guess you're right about the scholarship and the museum (which I hope to visit someday), but for me it's just not something that appeals to me that much. With or without a society, I will always be a Gordon and so will the others that I know. We'll always gather at the games and sing "A Gordon For Me"!

[macwilkin]

Oh, I pipe and "work" at the tent, talking to people looking to find out more about the clan. I'm great friends with the guys that work the tent in Wisconsin, and it's true that they've invested a lot of money, but it is not the Society's money. They did it on their own out of the love of their clan, just like I do.

And I guess you're right about the scholarship and the museum (which I hope to visit someday), but for me it's just not something that appeals to me that much. With or without a society, I will always be a Gordon and so will the others that I know. We'll always gather at the games and sing "A Gordon For Me"!

Fair enough, and good on ya for giving your time and talents.

T.