Sgian Dubh and the Church

[Rollo]

If you can carry a sword (for example Knights of Malta), you can wear a sgian dubh in your hose ! But, during a mass, you must lay it from the peace (before Agnus Dei) up to after communion.

[BoldHighlander]

I think the issue is best viewed with the focus on the church congregation as the primary consideration. There are some congregations where the majority would be aware of, and aknowledge it as simply a part of the normal attire. However if you are in a situation where the people of your congregation are unaware or merely uncomfortable about it then that is the most important issue to consider. Maybe after the service if a few minutes are spent discussing your intent to carry the Sgian Dubh as just a part your apparel I think people would pay no further attenton to it

Indeed.

[Bog Trotter]

I do appreciate everyone's input.

[Piper]

I've only been questioned once about my sgian dubh. I was asked why I was carrying a "weapon" in church ( I was piping at a wedding). I explained to the gentleman that if he took the pen out of his pocket and stabbed me with it, the pen was a weapon, whereas if I used my sgian to slice up and apple to share with him, the knife was a utensil. An object is defined more by its' use than its' form.
On a related note, I was piping at my grandson's school a couple of years ago, and one of the kids asked me about the "knife in your sock". I was amused to watch all the color leave the teacher's face. He was young enough that I doubt he had tenure, and was envisioning severe repercussions for violating the zero tolerance policy on scary things in the building. Fortunately for him (and me as well, I'd imagine) I was carrying a "cap dubh", bottle opener I had made up for ventures into the land of paranoia.

[NewGuise]

I explained to the gentleman that if he took the pen out of his pocket and stabbed me with it, the pen was a weapon, whereas if I used my sgian to slice up and apple to share with him, the knife was a utensil.

Nicely done.

[Panache]

I think the issue is best viewed with the focus on the church congregation as the primary consideration... if you are in a situation where the people of your congregation are unaware or merely uncomfortable about it then that is the most important issue to consider.

I really like this way of thinking!

I have three sgian dubhs and three "sgian don'ts" (comb, bottle cap opener, and blank). Now I used to wear the "sgian don'ts' to places it would be inappropriate to wear a blade to such as my children's school. I did have various people at times ask me , sometimes with concern, that I was carrying a knife onto school grounds (illegal here). I would pull the "sgian don't" out of my sock and we would have a good laugh.

Then something occurred to me

For every person that came to me to ask about what was in my sock there must have been at least another person out there that was bothered about it but didn't have it in them to talk to me about it. At a Spring Fair one of those people spoke with a police officer who then questioned me.

I wasn't offended but it did make me think

Even though my false sgian dubhs weren't knives, therefore legal, it made people uncomfortable.

I still wear my sgian dubhs and "sgian don'ts" but now I think about not just the law but the feelings of other people.

Unless I was a piper performing or getting dressed to the nines and getting married (which my lovely Flame-Haired Celtic Amazon Goddess has informed me will never happen again in my lifetime!) I wouldn't bother with a sgian dubh in church.

I don't need one there, there might be those that felt it wasn't appropriate, and there might be some actually bothered by it. By not wearing the knife I show respect to others.

Too often I think people forget that it isn't always about ourselves.

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

[bigdad1]

Well said Jaimie. Just as a bank robber might act as if he has a gun in his pocket (or a gub) it is often the impression that is more important than the reality. Those parents at school who don't have the grit to question you will always have the thought in their mind that you took a knife to school.

[JRB]

You know, the thing that bothers me most about the "scary sgian dubh" issue is this...Can anyone recall, either through personal experience or by heresay, any (and I mean any) incident that involved a person actually causing a problem of any kind with a sgian dubh?

As an avid kilt wearer and fan of my Scottish heritage I've been to many events where folks were wearing sgian dubhs. Never, not once, have I ever seen anyone use a sgian dubh inappropriately. In my entire life I have also never read or heard of anyone using a sgian dubh inappropriately. That says to me there should be no problems or suspicion with regard to wearing a sgian dubh anywhere other than to areas where it's legally prohibited.

A sgian dubh is a piece of traditional decoration, a handy tool, or both. It's not a weapon. It would make a pathetic weapon (much less affective than a simple broom stick). It's unfortunate that today's society views any thin blade shaped piece of metal as a deadly threat. Sadly, that is the case and the only way to completely avoid scaring someone is to not wear a sgian dubh. If you aren't concerned about the opinions of every single person you come in contact with then it's worth wearing your sgian dubh and possibly making someone uncomfortable. For what it's worth, that's what I'd choose to do.

[dfmacliam]

people get uncomfortable about what they do not understand....

any kilted gathering.. the sgains are common, noone will even be concerned....

[Nighthawk]

My grandfather used to say that a man without a knife is not a complete man. He was referring to the knife as a tool, of course- men should be utilitarian. With the exception of my full dress sgain dubh, all of mine are utilitarian, as well as beautiful. I always have one when I want to dress up a little, which includes going to church. It's gotten nothing but positive comments. I have and will continue to do so. In a setting where I am dressing up, it's like wearing a nice pair of cufflinks. I don't tell others not to wear their own formal wear and I expect the same respect. If you don't know what or why, then ask- I'm happy to explain. Just don't tell me not to once it's been explained.