prohibited tartans

[Jock Scot]

I'm sure I am mistaken. Here is my experience with the tartan, in a nutshell.

I had a client order a kilt in this tartan. It would require a custom weave, of course, so I called the mill to order the cloth for the kilt. I was informed by the mill that they could only weave it with permission of "Madam McKerrell of Hillhouse" and they gave me her contact information. I passed that information on to my client.

A few days later he contacted me. He had called and spoken with Madam McKerrell for about an hour on the phone and said he had a very pleasant conversation. She asked him about his geneaology, and he gladly shared with her what he knew of his family history. Apparantly by the end of the conversation she was satisfied that he was a McKerrell descandant and gave permission for him to wear the tartan. However, he would be required to buy it from her. I think she already had some on hand.

In any case, he purchased the fabric from her, and then brought it in to me to make the kilt. He was very proud of the tartan and doubly so because he had to go that extra mile to actually obtain it. It just made it more special for him.

Good for your customer. Your story illustrates, perfectly, why some of us Scots are somewhat mystified by people wanting to wear tartans that they have no connection to, and a whole host of them, at that. I can fully understand, as in this case, a clan connection and I fully understand district tartans and they ought to be understood and recognised more here in Scotland and I can understand universal tartans and I can understand appropriate state, country,college, band etc., tartans. Wanting tartans, just because, is a complete mystery to some of us.

[WClarkB]

Campbell of Breadalbane--fine [to wear].
Campbell of Cawdor--fine.
Campbell of Loudoun--fine.
Campbell of Glenlyon--I have never heard of it.
Campbell of Loch Awe-this is plain ridiculous, as we are all Campbells of Loch Awe originally. - Apart from anything else, I have never heard of a Campbell of Loch Awe tartan, nor do I wish to do so.

THERE IS NO DRESS CAMPBELL [TARTAN]--repeat! repeat! repeat!
There is NO HUNTING CAMPBELL.
There is NO CAMPRELL RED.
There is NO CAMPBELL - SIMPSON.

There are no Campbell cheques, other than commercial ones...

If I feel strongly about anything and would like it inscribed on my tombstone, there might be a few lines such as 'All Campbells with the exception of the three principal septs [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor and Loudoun] should wear plain undifferentiated Campbell for evermore and not get confused by peddlers of this [other] material that comes under all sorts of guises.

Yours ever,
Your Kinsman and Chief,
Argyll" [/I]

I don't think it is good for you to be so shy and retiring about your opinions; tell us how you REALLY feel!


(and btw thanks for a definitive answer)

[The Monk]

Uhh, actually, he was quoting the 12th Duke of Argyll from a letter sent to the Clan Campbell Society. This position was reaffirmed by the 13th Duke, MacCailein Mor, current Chief of Clan Campbell.

[Lachlan09]

I am very good friends with Hillhouse and his charming wife. I find your post in quite bad taste. It adds nothing to this discussion.

Sorry - no harm intended ! I apologise to the MacKerrells.

Sometimes, I'm a facetious little b' who needs reeled in.

[O'Callaghan]

Good for your customer. Your story illustrates, perfectly, why some of us Scots are somewhat mystified by people wanting to wear tartans that they have no connection to, and a whole host of them, at that. I can fully understand, as in this case, a clan connection and I fully understand district tartans and they ought to be understood and recognised more here in Scotland and I can understand universal tartans and I can understand appropriate state, country,college, band etc., tartans. Wanting tartans, just because, is a complete mystery to some of us.

Couldn't agree more, Jock.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Charles McKerrell of Hillhouse is an absolute gentleman, but he is painfully shy. Madam McKerrell, who is a charming lady, usually deals with all telephone conversations, hence she is usually the first point of contact for Clan McKerrell matters, including permission to wear the McKerrell tartan.

Good to know, thanks. That explains the reason for my previous confusion. :-)

[escherblacksmith]

Good for your customer. Your story illustrates, perfectly, why some of us Scots are somewhat mystified by people wanting to wear tartans that they have no connection to, and a whole host of them, at that. I can fully understand, as in this case, a clan connection and I fully understand district tartans and they ought to be understood and recognised more here in Scotland and I can understand universal tartans and I can understand appropriate state, country,college, band etc., tartans. Wanting tartans, just because, is a complete mystery to some of us.

Part of it (at least for me) is that there really aren't any ties from me to the old country. Sure, I can trace geneaology back to Lanarkshire, Scotland, and County Clare Ireland, and Bern, Switzerland and dozens of other places. But, all the culture I grew up with are a mix of South Dakota farmer and ex-military and Northern Mexico/Arizonian traditions and influences.

So, although it would be nice to say, "I support Laird X and clan Y", the fact is, that I know nothing about them or their relative histories, or where my various family connections would fit with importance. So, I dabble. Was my family particularly Frame? Should I go with Burnett because it is closer to my name (and there are ties)? stay with the wife's connections?

How does one, without any historical precedence, choose? I can't speak for others, but this is what I went through when having my first kilt made.

As a side-note, there aren't any local groups tied to any of the clans/houses I'm tied to. So, it is pretty much entirely up to me.

[Jock Scot]

Part of it (at least for me) is that there really aren't any ties from me to the old country. Sure, I can trace geneaology back to Lanarkshire, Scotland, and County Clare Ireland, and Bern, Switzerland and dozens of other places. But, all the culture I grew up with are a mix of South Dakota farmer and ex-military and Northern Mexico/Arizonian traditions and influences. So, although it would be nice to say, "I support Laird X and clan Y", the fact is, that I know nothing about them or their relative histories, or where my various family connections would fit with importance. So, I dabble. Was my family particularly Frame? Should I go with Burnett because it is closer to my name (and there are ties)? stay with the wife's connections? How does one, without any historical precedence, choose? I can't speak for others, but this is what I went through when having my first kilt made. As a side-note, there aren't any local groups tied to any of the clans/houses I'm tied to. So, it is pretty much entirely up to me.

Right,let us get this said right from the start, whatever tartan one chooses to wear it is hardly likely to end the world,now is it? I grant you that. However, as I understand it, you do have connections to a tartan. If you have no connection to any clan, is there a Swiss tartan? No state tartan? No military tartan that you could attach yourself to with a connection? Any other? Then a "universal " tartan is for you.The real point is this, many(not all) of us over here in Scotland, do not understand at all the need to have many tartans. When you have ONE, that is it! Many would regard having more than one tartan(apart from a regimental, dress,or,band tartan) as faintly distasteful and that is before we go down the expense route!

[macwilkin]

Part of it (at least for me) is that there really aren't any ties from me to the old country. Sure, I can trace geneaology back to Lanarkshire, Scotland, and County Clare Ireland, and Bern, Switzerland and dozens of other places. But, all the culture I grew up with are a mix of South Dakota farmer and ex-military and Northern Mexico/Arizonian traditions and influences.

So, although it would be nice to say, "I support Laird X and clan Y", the fact is, that I know nothing about them or their relative histories, or where my various family connections would fit with importance. So, I dabble. Was my family particularly Frame? Should I go with Burnett because it is closer to my name (and there are ties)? stay with the wife's connections?

How does one, without any historical precedence, choose? I can't speak for others, but this is what I went through when having my first kilt made.

As a side-note, there aren't any local groups tied to any of the clans/houses I'm tied to. So, it is pretty much entirely up to me.

I see several of options open to you:

First & foremost, the state where you reside has its own tartan, and a very active Scottish community. Arizona also has an official tartan that you might choose. You might also choose one of the Irish county tartans for Co. Clare, and I believe there was a Swiss tartan designed several years ago.

There are also two fashion tartans named for Lanarkshire in the Scottish Register of Tartans.

So there you go.

T.

[Jock Scot]

Duel post---deleted.