X Marks changes

**SteveB** · 23rd May 10, 10:07 AM

My avatar has me in a traditional hand sewn tartan kilt from Alba, in an almost traditional fashion. The errors were already gleaned in another thread a long time ago. It is in my clan tartan and is the pride of my kilt kollection.

My first "kilt" was shortly after my birth over a half century ago. There are many family pictures of me running around in it. This was long before the invention of colour photography. the shading indicates that it was a tartan, and most likely Clan MacNeil. Now as to the construction, it had "pleats" (more like gathers) in the rear and the aprons in front, until it slid around on me. The "Safety Pin" was not on the lower end of the apron, but used to keep the kilt on me. I did not get my first trousers until I was six, and preferred to wear my "real" kilt. My mother oft told me of my ability to educate my teachers concerning the boy garment that I chose to wear here in the U.S.

Fast forward in time. Real kilt is very expensive and sits in the closet except for special occasions. (Teen years).

Then along comes various contemporary kilts. I am back in the kilt again full time. Artisan Kilt, a self colour, cotton, rayon, elsewhat mix that hangs well, swings well, and is very inexpensive (the cost of two pair of Levis). I am happy. I become a contemporary kilt wearer, with T-shirt and short hose with either boots or trainers.

Fast forward even more.
Artisan is long gone out of business, Utilikilts, Amerikilt, Freedom Kilt are all inexpensive ways to kilt up, until the tartan fabric revolution.

Stillwater Kilts and others bring acrylic fiber and low cost into making a kilt that is assembled much like the traditional kilt, at a cost at or less than the contemporary kilt products.

Utilikilts and their ilk have raised prices up and the cost of a tartan garment has come down. First is the "traditional" kilt shops are now sewing "casual" models of less than eight yards, and are using sewing machines (gasp). The cost of these wool garments is getting close to the self colour garments of the contemporary market. Then along come P/V.
USA Kilts has a Semi-Traditional tartan kilt that costs less than the offerings of Utilikilts for those of us that have to pay a fat tax. Then Rocky has casual kilts made to measure, that is just to good to be true and costs less.

It is now easier to be wearing tartan than to wear a self colour contemporary here in the U.S.

I still wear contemporary garments for working the garden (mowing the lawn). It is more likely that I will be in tartan when I head to the grocer though.

These economic factors have probably influenced the kilt discussion here on X-marks for those of us in the U.S.

For the right side of the salt pond, I believe we are seeing a greater interest in things Scottish by the people living in Scotland. This is brought to the front by the great marketing of Homecoming 2009. Prior to this is the news reports concerning the trade in tourist trap tat, and its impact by such shops as the Gold Bros.

Both the kilt and tartan are making a bigger show in the public marketplace than only three years ago.

Here we are.

Slainte

**Monkey@Arms** · 24th May 10, 10:34 AM

Thanks for the shout-out, Alan. I don't have any answers. One theory might be there is simply less to say about modern kilts, like UKs. They don't need to be accessorized, they don't have a lot of lore and arcane rules associated with them. Slap one on, maybe read about boots, scrunched down socks and a wide belt, and you're good to go. Yeah, there are flare ups of old debates about modern vs. traditional, now and then, but thankfully not too often.

While traditional kilts get the most air time on the forum, they have less relevance to my personal life. I really only wear one when I want to dress formally, or in a way that connects to Scotland. At the Maker Faire in Northern California this past weekend I spotted a number of UKs being worn by attendees (and I'm not counting WalkerK and myself) The only traditionally styled kilt I saw was the solid colored SWK worn by Panache. UK also had a sales booth there for the first time, and I was told business was good. I see lots of UKs at various fire arts related happenings in the bay area, but I don't think these wearers are members of Xmarks, or interested in the bickering over fashion (yes, I use that word), in which we sometimes engage. As OC Richard pointed out, UKs are popular at the games in California, where they happily co-exist with traditionally-styled kilts, and the company is always attempting to expand their reach outside their current markets. (They are vending at the San Francisco Carnaval this coming weekend.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that modern-styled kilts are alive and well in the real world, so much so perhaps, that there is less to say about them on the internet.

Best regards,

Jake

**Alan H** · 24th May 10, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Monkey@Arms

Thanks for the shout-out, Alan. I don't have any answers. One theory might be there is simply less to say about modern kilts, like UKs. They don't need to be accessorized, they don't have a lot of lore and arcane rules associated with them. Slap one on, maybe read about boots, scrunched down socks and a wide belt, and you're good to go. Yeah, there are flare ups of old debates about modern vs. traditional, now and then, but thankfully not too often.

While traditional kilts get the most air time on the forum, they have less relevance to my personal life. I really only wear one when I want to dress formally, or in a way that connects to Scotland. At the Maker Faire in Northern California this past weekend I spotted a number of UKs being worn by attendees (and I'm not counting WalkerK and myself) The only traditionally styled kilt I saw was the solid colored SWK worn by Panache. UK also had a sales booth there for the first time, and I was told business was good. I see lots of UKs at various fire arts related happenings in the bay area, but I don't think these wearers are members of Xmarks, or interested in the bickering over fashion (yes, I use that word), in which we sometimes engage. As OC Richard pointed out, UKs are popular at the games in California, where they happily co-exist with traditionally-styled kilts, and the company is always attempting to expand their reach outside their current markets. (They are vending at the San Francisco Carnaval this coming weekend.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that modern-styled kilts are alive and well in the real world, so much so perhaps, that there is less to say about them on the internet.

Best regards,

Jake

BOLD test added by me.

I know at least three people who have left X Marks because they can no longer handle the bickering over "fashion". "Fashion", with all the negative connotations that brings up in my mind is exactly what I see a lot of, hereabouts, these days. Now that's just me, other people may not be bothered in the slightest, but I notice it.

I put your last sentence in bold because I think it's probably the most valid point of them all. The days of wearing a Utilikilt or other non-tartan contemporary kilt as being "edgy" and "out there" and only guys who are edgy and out there will wear them....is over. Regular dudes, now and then, wear contemporary kilts. Certainly around the Bay Area a Utilikilt is not a "rare" sight any more. Now that the trail is blazed by guys who found support and information on the internet, a significant part of the world is coming along for the ride, and they no longer need to talk it up a hundred times over. They just **wear** it.

So while a non-tartan contemporary kilt will not be "mainstream" in the next ten years....you probably won't see them at Macy's any time soon... they are much more common. I saw a guy in a UK downtown this weekend, for example. New contemporary kilt wearers are less likely to find support online. They see it, they think it over, they buy it, they wear it. you put on a belt and some boots and you go wear the thing. What's the big deal?

Five years ago, it was a big deal. Now it's not.

**macwilkin** · 24th May 10, 10:53 AM

Post deleted.

**Alan H** · 24th May 10, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

********

T.

LOL...OK....I'll delete mine, too, then.

Hey, I just learned how to do the "cool" emoticon! LOL

**macwilkin** · 24th May 10, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Alan H

I wrote four paragraphs. Then, before I "hit the button" I went and got a cup of coffee. I remembered that this forum is about clothes. **CLOTHES** so I deleted what I wrote and posted this instead.

Point well taken, Allen. As you can see, I chose to delete my comments as well, because I acted too hastily in my reply. I do not totally agree with you in saying the forum is just about clothes, because for many of us, those "clothes" do have symbolic meaning. Perhaps that is the reason why we can talk about traditional Highland attire ad nauseum is because of the rich history and heritage behind them.

Just so you know, I have no problem, Todd, with you or your choices in what to wear. However, there are others on the forum who choose to dress more conservatively, with whom I have a very great problem. The issue as I see it is not "trad bashing" or "contemporary-bashing". In fact "traditional" and "contemporary" are pretty irrelevant in this case. It's just that most of the guys on the forum are pretty nice guys......and some, a very few.....are not.

We'll leave it at that.

Fair enough, Allen. As a friend of mine, an ex-Chief Stoker in the Royal Australian Navy, used to say: "we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable."

T.

**ScottEPooh** · 24th May 10, 11:30 AM

As I was looking through this thread and reading, my eye was drawn to the "Partners" block at the top of each page and the "Advertisers" block at the bottom. I haven't been a part of XMTS for a severely long time, but I did notice more "contemporary" advertising than I can remember from the "old days". I mean, I can only rememebr seeing the Freedom Kilts (bow to the mighty admin) button, but now I also see AltKilt and FlamingoKilts, with Union Kilts and S Kilt on the "Sponsors" block among those who shell out money to keep us chatting. I can only remember AK and UK as places to get a contemporary kilt when I started, but now those options have expanded greatly. So while it may be that our chatter is more traditional than it has been, the number of conteporary kiltmakers making that chatting possible has expanded. That, and the fact that Alan's entertaining and educational X-Kilt manual has been mentioned almost daily on this site tells me contemporary kilties are definitely alive and well. For myself, I own a UK, a SWK, a USAK, and an X-Kilt, and have been looking at getting another contemporary to add to the mix. Of course, I would also like to get a nice tank into that mix as well, so maybe I just want more kilts!!! :

:

**Alan H** · 24th May 10, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Point well taken, Allen. As you can see, I chose to delete my comments as well, because I acted too hastily in my reply. I do not totally agree with you in saying the forum is just about clothes, because for many of us, those "clothes" do have symbolic meaning. Perhaps that is the reason why we can talk about traditional Highland attire ad nauseum is because of the rich history and heritage behind them.

Fair enough, Allen. As a friend of mine, an ex-Chief Stoker in the Royal Australian Navy, used to say: "we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable."

T.

You and I are reasonably good at this (bold added by me)

...you're better at it than I am. If only everyone had this talent.