The Varieties of Traditional Experience: To Jabot or not To Jabot

[macwilkin]

Like yourself I have never worn a black tie, in lieu of a white tie, to a "white tie" event, kilted or otherwise. I suspect that the anomaly is due in large measure to the fact that very few kilted gentlemen posses a white waistcoat suitable for wear with Highland attire, and thus fall back on the black tie option by default.

Interestingly, in "The Scottish Tartans" by Innes of Learney, The illustrator, William Semple, chose to illustrate a gent in formal rig for the Buchanan plate wearing a white tie and black waistcoat with a Regulation Doublet. Has anyone else ever seen this done?

T.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

So technically speaking, if one wears a bow tie to a white tie event, it should be white.

That is not only technically correct, it is socially correct as well (remembering that a jabot is an acceptable alternative to a white tie).

But in practice, one could do worse than to follow the example of the Royal Dukes?

Not really. You have to keep in mind that in the above photo both Rothsey and Edinburgh are wearing uniform jackets unique to the Royal family.

That is to say, a literal black tie worn with fullest formal accouterments is actually a metaphorical white tie...

Almost, but not quite. There are several nuances in dress that really do separate the two styles, not the least of which is the colour of the waistcoat. That said, if a gentleman does not posses evening dress (white tie) then in most circumstances it is considered permissible to wear black tie in its place. However, if one is planning on attending a white tie event in Highland attire, it is a simple matter to pop into your local "rent-a-tux" and purchase or hire a white tie, wing collar shirt, and white waistcoat and... voila! One is properly kitted out for the evening.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I don't think the D of R is wearing the Garter Riband. I believe he's wearing a Swedish order...the Royal Order of the Seraphim. Therefore he would not be wearing the Lesser George.

Well, yes... and just by the way the riband is worn I should have realised that! All the same, I would very much like to know how the badge of the Order of the Seraphim is displayed with that jacket.

[Cygnus]

Interestingly, in "The Scottish Tartans" by Innes of Learney, The illustrator, William Semple, chose to illustrate a gent in formal rig for the Buchanan plate wearing a white tie and black waistcoat with a Regulation Doublet. Has anyone else ever seen this done?

T.

I've never seen it done in person, though I have seen a number of photos of gentlemen attired this way. None of those photos had been taken in the past half century, though, so I'm not sure how acceptable it would be now.

[macwilkin]

Interestingly, in "The Scottish Tartans" by Innes of Learney, The illustrator, William Semple, chose to illustrate a gent in formal rig for the Buchanan plate wearing a white tie and black waistcoat with a Regulation Doublet. Has anyone else ever seen this done?

T.

Here is an image of an earlier edition of "The Scottish Tartans" which shows the variation I mentioned earlier, only this figure is obviously not a Buchanan:

http://www.scotiana.com/wp-content/u...er-300x216.jpg

T.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Interestingly, in "The Scottish Tartans" by Innes of Learney, The illustrator, William Semple, chose to illustrate a gent in formal rig for the Buchanan plate wearing a white tie and black waistcoat with a Regulation Doublet. Has anyone else ever seen this done?

T.

Likewise, if one looks at the illustration for Erskine (pg 34 in my copy) one will also see white tie worn with a black waistcoat (pg 97 shows Menzies in white tie and white waistcoat and pg 82 shows Macleod in black tie and, presumably, a black waistcoat). Interestingly, in an earlier edition of "The Scottish Tartans" published c. 1902-10, if one flips to Erskine (pg 50 in my copy) white tie is shown with a white waistcoat. This anomaly is the result of changing social custom, and a lessening of formality, over a 50 year period. What has been inadvertently documented in these two books is the shift from "always" dining in white tie (the custom in 1910) to "always" dining in black tie (the custom by 1950).

Frankly I have never seen a black waistcoat worn with white tie by anyone other than servants or functionaries, and never with the kilt. Perhaps I lead a sheltered life...

My personal take on black tie is that when attending a dinner party in a private home I often wear a three button waistcoat in Macmillan hunting tartan, cut on the bias. If attending a public function I wear either a black or red waistcoat, depending on the formality of the event. If I am attending a white tie event then I wear a white waistcoat and white tie.

[Cygnus]

I knew I had seen one of those "white tie, black waistcoat" photos on this board, and here it is - originally posted by Boldhighlander in the Vintage Kilt Photos thread:



This photo is from the early 20th Century, which predates the period of change given above by MoR; however, given the subject's military background, this may be yet another case of a formal uniform.

[Bugbear]

I see a few unanswered questions still floating around.

What color is the waistcoat worn with the jabot for white tie?

From CMcG, is a riding stock/Highland cravat acceptable for Highland attire black tie equivalent?

From MacLowlife,is an ascot ever acceptable when worn with Highland attire?

[piperdbh]

I see a few unanswered questions still floating around.

What color is the waistcoat worn with the jabot for white tie?

Usually black, but it can be tartan or something else.

[MacLowlife]

Doing a little more research, I see that some people suggest the names ascot and cravat are interchangeable. Just to be certain, the device to which I refer is the scarf that goes inside an open-necked shirt, in the manner of Thurston Howell, III and Robert DuVall in APOCALYPSE NOW. I believe its general connotation is of at-home elegance and/or casual distinction. You will see on other forum postings that it is to the bow tie as the bow tie is to the four-in-hand- a little riskier, a little rarer. But, like a dinner jacket, unless modified somehow it might be a bit of a mixed metaphor to throw it in with a kilt.

I do not wish to sound political or to alarm the mods, but it may be too English to be considered for traditional highland wear.

I look forward to either contradiction or confirmation.