To all my pagan bretheren on this board-

[Nighthawk]

Much of the ancient customs of Yule have been adapted & adopted by Christians in our Christmas celebrations. It's not that that we celebrate "Pagan" holidays, but our celebrations certainly have some "Pagan" roots. In the Scandinavian countries, the terms "Yule" and "Christmastide" are synonymous.

The Yule Log, for example, was used in Christian England long before the German Christmas tree was introduced as part of the celebration.

This basic article provides a good explanation, even though it has no sources cited:

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/f...-solstice.html

T.

Yes sir, I am very well aware of that, believe me! My dad and I use that little fact to get my evangelical Christian sister in law all agitated from time to time... She refuses to believe that any of her practices are based on anything other than strict Christian doctrine. Any documentation stating otherwise is "deception from Satan."

Oh, and I didn't realize that the Christmas tree was of German origin! I never really gave that one much thought. Thanks for that little tidbit!

And to answer the earlier question, we usually eat a candy yule log since we have nowhere to burn a real one, drive around listening to Christmas music, looking at all the pretty lights! And my wife and I stay up until midnight to welcome the new day. I would attend the Living Earth Yule ritual, but that's not practical at this point. Wish it were...

[Bugbear]

In the article cajunscot posted, "Christmas, Yule and the Winter Solstice," it looks like Daniel Parkinson does cite Fraser's "The Golden Bough." I have that book, but I don't know if it is a credible source.

Any suggestions on books that discuss the adoption and adaptation of traditions etc that aren't a bunch of speculation?


* I suppose I will eat an oatmeal yule log...

[macwilkin]

Yes sir, I am very well aware of that, believe me! My dad and I use that little fact to get my evangelical Christian sister in law all agitated from time to time... She refuses to believe that any of her practices are based on anything other than strict Christian doctrine. Any documentation stating otherwise is "deception from Satan."

Oh, and I didn't realize that the Christmas tree was of German origin! I never really gave that one much thought. Thanks for that little tidbit!

And to answer the earlier question, we usually eat a candy yule log since we have nowhere to burn a real one, drive around listening to Christmas music, looking at all the pretty lights! And my wife and I stay up until midnight to welcome the new day. I would attend the Living Earth Yule ritual, but that's not practical at this point. Wish it were...

Popular tradition credits Prince Albert for introducing German Christmas customs to England, including the Christmas tree. Dickens also deserves some credit for helping to revive ancient customs that had fallen into obscurity thanks to Cromwell and his Roundhead boyos who banned Christmas during the Commonwealth.

I'm sorry about your sister, but rest assured that we are not all that way.

T.

[BoldHighlander]

Popular tradition credits Prince Albert for introducing German Christmas customs to England, including the Christmas tree. Dickens also deserves some credit for helping to revive ancient customs that had fallen into obscurity thanks to Cromwell and his Roundhead boyos who banned Christmas during the Commonwealth.

I have read that during the American Revolution the Hessian soldiers introduced the Christmas tree to the colonies, though I don't believe it would be widely adopted until much later (sorry I can't cite chapter & verse, my copies of the Hessian diaries are in storage at the moment).

"Froehliche Weihnachten!"

[BoldHighlander]

Nighthawk, you & others may find this thread (here) that I just started of interest. In it are old Scottish Christmas traditions, most which obviously have their roots in older pagan times.

[BroosterB1]

In the article cajunscot posted, "Christmas, Yule and the Winter Solstice," it looks like Daniel Parkinson does cite Fraser's "The Golden Bough." I have that book, but I don't know if it is a credible source.

Any suggestions on books that discuss the adoption and adaptation of traditions etc that aren't a bunch of speculation?


* I suppose I will eat an oatmeal yule log...

Depends what is, is. Meaning the citations you are asking for really depend on where on the compass you are coming from.

The best citation I could give you from a purely historical framework would be Ceaser and Christ; the Roman Empire by Ariel and Will Durant. The discussion of the interaction of the early Christian church and the Roman empire through to the adoption of Christianity as Romes official religion, then the later fall of Rome is one of interest.

England swang from a vigorous embrace of Christmas/Yule to a out and out rejection of it. Many of these attitudes carried forward through the rules of Charles II to William IV (the Puritans came from England after all). Dickens Scrooge was a caricature of such nose to the grindstone type of thought.

America after the Revolution embraced all things NOT British; the influx of German, Polish and other Northern Europeans brought many traditions here before they were accepted in the Empire of Victoria.

in any event we have our traditions. On this night of Solstice may you all enjoy a fortuitous New Year.

Life is short.
But the years are long.
Not while the evil days come not.

Pax

[artificer]

I have read that during the American Revolution the Hessian soldiers introduced the Christmas tree to the colonies, though I don't believe it would be widely adopted until much later (sorry I can't cite chapter & verse, my copies of the Hessian diaries are in storage at the moment).

"Froehliche Weihnachten!"

I thought it was the German immigrants of the 1840's that really MADE Christmas what it 'is' with "father Christmas", the tree, advent calendars, etc.

I do know that I'm in one of the few areas of the country that still has "St. Nicholas Day", and that all are HEAVILY Germanic.

Prince Albert also made the tree popular in England, as I'm led to understand.

Honestly, I'm waiting for the Pastafarian holidays to really come into being (apart from "Talk Like A Pirate Day"). Where we all kick back, listen to some Jimmy Buffet and eat a HUGE bowl of our favorite noodly godness.

[BoldHighlander]

I thought it was the German immigrants of the 1840's that really MADE Christmas what it 'is' with "father Christmas", the tree, advent calendars, etc.

Yes, I wasn't really saying otherwise

However it has been noted in Rev War era diaries that Hessian troops quartered in Trenton (and in Canada) had Christmas trees (the first in the colonies I believe).

[artificer]

Yes, I wasn't really saying otherwise

However it has been noted in Rev War era diaries that Hessian troops quartered in Trenton (and in Canada) had Christmas trees (the first in the colonies I believe).

Aye, but they're not likely to make too many friends with "the locals" as it were

[BoldHighlander]

Aye, but they're not likely to make too many friends with "the locals" as it were

Indeed!