Proper hose with the PC tux

[OC Richard]

The original question asked "proper hose with the PC".

I've not come across any 19th century images of the PC but it shows up in the Highland Dress catalogues from the 1920s and 1930s I have.

This is how the Prince Charlie (sometimes simply called "coatee") is shown:





The Prince Charlie is NEVER shown with selfcoloured/plain hose, but invariably with diced or tartan hose and buckled shoes. (The shoes shown are Mary Jane style, "Cromwell" style, or ghillies with buckles at the toes.)

My 1936 Paisley catalogue states "The Prince Charlie Coatee is correct dress for gentlemen's evening wear. The coatee is of black superfine cloth finished with silverplated buttons." Shown are black PCs with wingcollar shirts, black bow ties, full tartan hose, and "cromwell" buckled shoes.

My 1936 Anderson catalogue is interesting as it shows a green Prince Charlie coatee worn with lace jabot, tartan waistcoat, diced castellated hose, and "cromwell" buckled brogues: a much more formal concept of the PC than we have today.

It states "The coatee is specially suitable for a young man or an older man of slim figure. It is definately less suitable for the stouter figure. A neat close-fitting coat, it is generally made in black cloth with silk facings or in green cloth... the waistcoat may be of cloth to match the coat, tartan to match the kilt, scarlet or other colour...
Stockings... are knitted to match the tartan of the kilt, or diced stockings of different colours are correct."

So say the Highland Dress makers of the 1930s.

[Java]

I've always avoided "The Great White Hose Debate" because I thought it silly. I certainly don't want to re-open it here. I've always thought it silly because honestly, if I cared what other people thought, would I be wearing a kilt in the North Georgia mountails in the first place?

But this..

Until we can get a secret handshake, we have to rely on things like a dislike of white hose.

This makes sense! Why didn't someone mention this before?

Have Fun,
Tom

[IRISH]

i'm not terribly confident that this will aid the op in any manner, but over the weekend i attended a largely kilted wedding and i did not particularly adhere to any standard wedding convention. since the groom was a piper in a large band, a great number of guests were band mates who wore their band kilts and presumably, their band jackets, hose and sporrans. most other guests were wearing dark dress tartans, cantle sporrans and black ghillies.

the kilt that i wore was in the ferguson weathered tartan and with it i wore a white shirt, lovat blue tie, deep blue tweed jacket with lovat blue accents, handknit argyll hose (that were made to approximate, but not match, the kilt), brown shoes and brown buffalo leather sporran with badger flap.

i was the ONLY guy not in a black jacket and the only guy not in black shoes. my only hesitation was turning up to kilted wedding for one of my oldest mates in anything other than a fancy cantled sporran. however, i could barely get my drinks in for all of the approaches of other guests complimenting me on my attire, and that includes most of the kilted lads strapped into their prince charlies.

in the end, wear the best that you have and be proud of it. a gentlemen is a gentlemen regardless of the finer points of his attire...

[KEArnold]

The original question asked "proper hose with the PC".



The Prince Charlie is NEVER shown with selfcoloured/plain hose, but invariably with diced or tartan hose and buckled shoes. (The shoes shown are Mary Jane style, "Cromwell" style, or ghillies with buckles at the toes.)




It states "The coatee is specially suitable for a young man or an older man of slim figure. It is definately less suitable for the stouter figure. A neat close-fitting coat, it is generally made in black cloth with silk facings or in green cloth... the waistcoat may be of cloth to match the coat, tartan to match the kilt, scarlet or other colour...
Stockings... are knitted to match the tartan of the kilt, or diced stockings of different colours are correct."

So say the Highland Dress makers of the 1930s.

okay so the buckle shoe was popular at the turn of the century(ish)

the comment about "The coatee is specially suitable for a young man or an older man of slim figure. It is definitely less suitable for the stouter figure" irks ma a bit though. What's a rather fat individual (such as myself) suppose to dress like then?

http://www.thesteampunkempire.com/ph...y?context=user

the above link shows how I was dressed. I was literally the MOST popular person there.

[piperdbh]

Looks just like you!

[davidlpope]

i'm not terribly confident that this will aid the op in any manner, but over the weekend i attended a largely kilted wedding and i did not particularly adhere to any standard wedding convention. since the groom was a piper in a large band, a great number of guests were band mates who wore their band kilts and presumably, their band jackets, hose and sporrans. most other guests were wearing dark dress tartans, cantle sporrans and black ghillies.

the kilt that i wore was in the ferguson weathered tartan and with it i wore a white shirt, lovat blue tie, deep blue tweed jacket with lovat blue accents, handknit argyll hose (that were made to approximate, but not match, the kilt), brown shoes and brown buffalo leather sporran with badger flap.

i was the ONLY guy not in a black jacket and the only guy not in black shoes. my only hesitation was turning up to kilted wedding for one of my oldest mates in anything other than a fancy cantled sporran. however, i could barely get my drinks in for all of the approaches of other guests complimenting me on my attire, and that includes most of the kilted lads strapped into their prince charlies.

in the end, wear the best that you have and be proud of it. a gentlemen is a gentlemen regardless of the finer points of his attire...

Strong work! What time was the wedding? Sounds like you might have been the only kilted fellow appropriately attired for a daytime wedding and people noticed how sharp you looked. Funny how social conventions do tend to work to one's benefit when followed...

[JSFMACLJR]

the comment about "The coatee is specially suitable for a young man or an older man of slim figure. It is definitely less suitable for the stouter figure" irks ma a bit though. What's a rather fat individual (such as myself) suppose to dress like then?
.

A "regulation" style doublet is a much better choice.

[IRISH]

Strong work! What time was the wedding? Sounds like you might have been the only kilted fellow appropriately attired for a daytime wedding and people noticed how sharp you looked. Funny how social conventions do tend to work to one's benefit when followed...

4pm cocktails in the lobby of an historic hotel. Short wedding ceremony at 5pm in the ballroom followed by seated reception dinner and plenty of pipes, highland dance and a fifteen minute solo by a former world champion piper.

[davidlpope]

4pm cocktails in the lobby of an historic hotel. Short wedding ceremony at 5pm in the ballroom followed by seated reception dinner and plenty of pipes, highland dance and a fifteen minute solo by a former world champion piper.

Sounds like fun.

[OC Richard]

the comment about "The coatee is specially suitable for a young man or an older man of slim figure. It is definitely less suitable for the stouter figure" irks ma a bit though. What's a rather fat individual (such as myself) suppose to dress like then?

The old Highland Dress catalogues from that time (the 20's and 30's) repeatedly stress that the "Coatee" (Prince Charlie) is suitable for young men, and that the "Doublet" (Regulation Doublet) is more traditonal/old-fashioned and suitable for older gentlemen.

Since I have hundreds of photos and paintings showing the Doublet being worn from the 1860s up through the 1930s, and no images of the Coatee from before the 1920s, I can infer that in the 20s the Coatee was a recent innovation and was trendy and popular with young men.

I can find no reference in these old catalogues to the Coatee being of recent design, but I do find references to the Montrose and Kenmore doublets as being recently invented things.

Styles change! When I started attending kilted functions in the late 70s and early 80s it was the older stout gentlemen who were wearing Prince Charlies and the younger dashing men (such as myself at that time!) wearing other things- I wore a Claret velvet Montrose doublet at that time to stand out from all the old guys.

And here are some of the world's top pipers gathered in Scotland- it's the dashing fellow with an eye for standing out from the crowd who is wearing a (Regulation) Doublet, the rest wearing Coatees. He's also the only one wearing buckles on his ghillies, often seen in the 1930s with Evening Dress.



BTW I personally never liked white or offwhite hose with Evening Dress, not in the 70s or 80s and still not today.

When I got married, in the 80s, there was a delay in my tartan hose arriving so I wore blue hose with my Prince Charlie Coatee.