indecency

[Downunder Kilt]

True Blue answered the question well. In legal terms, there must be "means rea" - literally, "guilty mind," meaning you had the intention to commit a crime.

I have never heard of someone who was kilted who unintentionally flashed someone being prosecuted for indecency or public lewdness.

If you are going regimental and trip and accidentally flash yourself to a bus full of nuns, was that your intention?

I know there was a you tube video on this site months ago that had a drunken Scottish soccer fan pull off his kilt on camera during a newscast. Obviously he had the intent to do that.

As a police officer, if I got complaint of a kilted man exposing themselves, I would have consider the situation - did the actor lift up his kilt or did someone else do it to him? Did a breeze lift it up? Did he immediately push it back down or did he take a stroll past the schoolyard first?

I think the vast majority of rabble on this site really need not be concerned with being locked up any time soon. Well, at least not for flashing.

There is also the term reckless intent wherein you do something having no regards to the outcome. This could be the case where you go regimental whilst wearing a kilt on a very windy day. You don't intend (mens rea) that your kilt flies up around your ears during a gust, but it was probable it would happen given the climatic conditions. You could very well be charged with a criminal offence in that you actions were reckless and likely to cause offence.

It is very much like a person firing a firearm down a busy street, and saying they did not intend to hurt anyone and did not aim at anyone. It is reckless and just because there was no intent (mens rea), there was a reckless intent as it was highly probable that their action would cause injury/death

Black's Law Dictionary defines recklessness in American law as "Conduct whereby the actor does not desire harmful consequence but...foresees the possibility and consciously takes the risk," or alternatively as "a state of mind in which a person does not care about the consequences of his or her actions." Black's Law dictionary 1053 (Bryan A. Garner ed., 8th ed. abr. 2005). In American courts, like English courts, a wrongdoer is found guilty of recklessness based upon the subjective test rule, where the accused must have had the same reasonable knowledge or ability to know the circumstances surrounding the incident in order to be found guilty of recklessness.

[CDNSushi]

TIn American courts, like English courts, a wrongdoer is found guilty of recklessness based upon the subjective test rule, where the accused must have had the same reasonable knowledge or ability to know the circumstances surrounding the incident in order to be found guilty of recklesness.

Since this is unlikely to have ever happened, we are probably just speaking academically here... Let's look at this again. To use your example of a kilt on a windy day, I suspect that recklessness would be a very difficult thing to prove or disprove in court.

Is it reasonable for everyone to check the weather before choosing their clothes for the day? Probably. But not necessarily... If a kilt were part of a work uniform, you'd be putting it on regardless of the weather. In addition, there isn't always an opportunity to ascertain whether or not it may be windy at some point during the day. If someone argued in court that someone should have known that a kilt would fly akimbo on a windy day, the most logical defense would be to show an example of a weather report where there were no mention of wind, and claim that it was calm when you left the house.

In addition to this, it could be argued that since going regimental when wearing a kilt is seen as STANDARD (rather than an anomaly or exception), it could not by definition constitute recklessness... Poor judgment? Perhaps. But not recklessness.

In cases of recklessness, especially like this, it would probably largely come down not to facts, but whether MY lawyer could beat up YOUR lawyer, and their prowess in arguing in court.

Again, this is purely academic, as the most LIKELY cause of an arrest or conviction would be based on intentional exposure -- i.e. indecent exposure.

[Galician]

I was standing on the street chatting with a bunch of athletes whom I knew, right after a big meet. While I was talking to them, a young woman passing by just reached over and lifted up the back of my kilt.

To her clear disappointment, I wasn't going regimental, though it wouldn't have mattered to the crowd around me.

I wish I had been able to slap a pair of handcuffs on her.

[Bill aka Mole]

Yes.

I've never intentionally flashed anyone, and I've only had someone try to lift my kilt once -- in Japan, not here in the states.

It was December 1999, and I was at the birthday party of the Soke or head master of the Bujinkan martial arts organization, in the hombu or headquarters dojo in Noda. I was wearing a feileadh mor with otherwise-modern attire:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?p...&id=1199617140

At one point after sufficient pizza, sushi, wine, and beer, I was having a personal chat with the Soke when a high-level female instructor from the U.K. (and wife of an equally high-level instructor who was a former Royal Marine Commando) crept up behind me with another lass to lift the kilt portion for a peek (resulting in her husband calling me "white-****"; not to worry, I've known both Natascha and her husband for a couple of decades).

After we all stopped laughing, Soke asked me to bring him a calligraphy sheet he'd given me earlier in the evening. At that point he officially gave me a bugo or "warrior name", writing it on the sheet along with the Imperial date.

These things usually have multi-level meanings, and often are a little embarrassing to the recipient. The character for tan in the name, Tanryuu, refers to courage or a sort of "inner fierceness of the heart" which may not always be apparent but is there to emerge at need.

Inner fierceness of the heart, or perhaps a "brave heart". And remember what I was wearing.

The "ryuu" part though, is "dragon". When Hatsumi sensei awards a bugo, it often is a "dragon name" because the bugo given him by his own master, Takamatsu Toshitsugu, was "Venerable White Dragon".

So then to my name, "Courageous Dragon".

I suppose it's a good thing, as most guys have a mere "trouser snake".

Outstanding! Just outstanding!

[jeremy j starche]

I must be the one with the bad luck then, I've had my kilt lifted enough times that I've grown to be downright paranoid about it.

If an even sells alcohol, then I'm not going regimental.

If the event is likely to have a curious German Shephard*, I'm not going regimental.

* Yes, there is a story about that. No, its not safe for a family-oriented forum.

[tky58]

I have been checked out twice.

The first time was by a young lady at a friend's New Years party. She had had quite a bit to drink and while I was warming myself by the bonfire - well, I felt a draft.

The second time was at my nurse's wedding. Again alcohol loosened the social control of one of the groomsmen.

Thankfully, I almost never go regimental and was not for either of these "violations". This is just my personal preference. I sometimes regret my sense of comfort does not contribute to the legend of kilt wearers. However, if any of the "snoopers" ever looked up the front - well size matters.

Steven Wilson, MD
Tartan Leatherneck (USMC 1976-1981)
Family affiliations: Wilson - England
Murphy - County Cork, Ireland
Macneil of Barra
Douglas - Wife's family

Semper Fidelis
(Semper Bifucated)

[Bigkahuna]

In the mid 1700s,at the fortress of Louisburg, a Frenchman lost his arm to a Scottish Officers broadsword after having the temerity to lift up his kilt.

[Mark E.]

Accidents happen, regardless of precautionary measures-just have your wife ask any female who has worn a dress/skirt. Minimizing that risk is always a good thing. As an active kilt wearer, I generally don't go about "Fixing to get famous"-but things have happened...fortunately in mature crowd. Unfortunately, I have found myself being "goosed" felt up, and otherwise improperly introduced by the same mature crowd post-intoxication.

-Most interesting intentional 'feeling up' was a "bonniest knees" competition I hadn't planned on...one of the judgers was egged on by the crowd to go higher than, well, knee in her hands-on review...She got suprised. Evidently the other contestants had dissapointed in some regards. No legal action resulted.

-Unarmed vs. armed tussle with a feller on a challenge ended up with my becoming quite popular (with a number of folk, including his wife), and his becoming teased unendingly in the VIP tent. No legal action resulted.

-A junk leather belt and pewter buckle, along with a close quarters shield encounter left me in a "berserker" fashion-I stuck it out until the end, and actually won the engagement (mainly due to fear/shock factor on the part of my opponents, I think). There was no question what was worn under the kilt that day. Smaller group, fortunately. Also fortunately, my shirt was just long enough to keep me legal, as long as I didn't do any serious bending over...and since I had no second belt, well, the rest of the day was shirting it. No legal action resulted-a new belt, however, did. And longer shirts.

-Almost tornadic winds in Indiana...The year I started wearing my full badger sporran. The sporran kept the front down, but as for the other...all of that great kilt wool in the back ain't worth anything in the big gusty period of October. Fortunately, everyone else had the same issue, so wasn't so bad. No legal action that I am aware of resulted.

Believe it or not, having mixed up martial and some wrestling action with other kilt wearers, I find the ones who aren't regimental catch more grief for flashing drawers than I do by flashing literal and apparant lack of. Having a Plan B in your sporran (if your sporran is big enough) is always a plus, however. Evaluate what you will be doing, and who with/around. And never get too confident you have enountered all possible situations!

[Mike M.]

Reading this thread, I suspect there's a market for tartan underwear.

[NeightRG]

Reading this thread, I suspect there's a market for tartan underwear.

As long as it's not 16oz wool... Ouch.