Dress Codes

[davidg]

And that brings up the next issue. Many people see dressing up as a nuissance, to be avoided if at all possible. They haven't realized the fun of being the best dressed man in the room.

Jock says it's simple and, for those of us who know, it is. In theory. In practice though there are so many outfitters out there that have got us confused and sloppy. So much so that it can indeed "become a nuisance, to be avoided if at all possible"

I'm attending a black tie dinner in 2 days time and I need a new evening dress shirt. I want to go with the traditional fold down collar, soft front marcella (I'd prefer plain front but that's asking the impossible), french cuff, stud fastening version. Can I get one? No. Every shop seems to think shiny black plastic buttons are the same as dress studs and attached wing collars are "the thing". Does it matter socially if I turn up dressed outside of the accepted convention, NO. Will I know if I am not doing it conventionally and with style, YES

I could turn up in one of my fly front shirts and still be correctly dressed, but I want to wear my studs. Why is that so difficult? Only because the retailers make it difficult. If I didn't know better would I bother with all this hassle? Probably not

[davedove]

Jock says it's simple and, for those of us who know, it is. In theory. In practice though there are so many outfitters out there that have got us confused and sloppy. So much so that it can indeed "become a nuisance, to be avoided if at all possible"

I'm attending a black tie dinner in 2 days time and I need a new evening dress shirt. I want to go with the traditional fold down collar, soft front marcella (I'd prefer plain front but that's asking the impossible), french cuff, stud fastening version. Can I get one? No. Every shop seems to think shiny black plastic buttons are the same as dress studs and attached wing collars are "the thing". Does it matter socially if I turn up dressed outside of the accepted convention, NO. Will I know if I am not doing it conventionally and with style, YES

I could turn up in one of my fly front shirts and still be correctly dressed, but I want to wear my studs. Why is that so difficult? Only because the retailers make it difficult. If I didn't know better would I bother with all this hassle? Probably not

I'll have to agree with that. I don't particulary care for the wing collars either, but that seems to be all one can find at the stores for a formal shirt. To get what you want, you are almost required to order it. So, yeah, it can be a real pain at the stores to put together an outfit, unless you just go for the cookie cutter outfit that every store has on hand.

[CMcG]

Jock Scot has a very valid point about consulting with the host of an event regarding the dress code. One of the currents in this thread, though, is that it is not always so simple... just because the host specifies something in the invitation does not always mean that everyone will understand the same thing!

Case in point: I was invited to an event a while back and asked to wear my kilt. The evening was to be "semi-formal," so I asked for clarification as to whether this would be the traditional Saxon definition that Father Bill mentioned earlier (black tie/dinner jacket equivalent). The host said that it would not be that formal, but rather just a step below.

I wore a tartan kilt, dress Argyll, matching waistcoat, ABF tie, solid hose, hunting sporran, and was by far the most formally dressed in the room. Most of the guys were wearing slacks and collared shirts but no ties or jackets! I did feel a bit over dressed but decided not to remove my jacket or tie because the host seemed so pleased with my efforts.

What about situations where there is no dress code specified and/or where there is no one person acting as the host?

For example, my home university back in Toronto has an annual Burns Night celebration. All members of the academic community are welcome and there is no dress code. The first year I went wearing a tartan kilt, button up shirt (no tie), hunting sporran, waistcoat, and solid hose. I was by far better dressed than all the rest of the students, who wore jeans and tee shirts. The other kilted attendees, however, wore black tie formal. The next year I knew better and dressed accordingly...

[AFS1970]

I think the biggest problem is with what different forms of dress are called and how definitions seem to have changed (and not always for the better).

Many years ago in the early days of my career, I was going to a conference. I was a new member of the association putting on the conference and was at the ripe old are of 20 to boot. The end of the conference featured what was called a "formal banquet". To me this meant black tie, but my stepfather cautioned me that it really only meant a dark suit. I was not sure but since he wore a suit to work most days I figured he might be correct. When the banquet came and I was there in my suit, the only tuxes were on the association officers and everyone one else was in a mix of style from suits like mine to jeans and sport shirts. I still am not sure I consider what I had on or the lesser forms to have been formal, but nobody seemed to notice.

I was once invited to a friends wedding and the invitation said black tie required. Not wanting to wear my kilt, I planned on renting a tux. I mentioned this at the bachelor party and was met with surprise from my friend who could not understand why in my early 30's I did not own a tuxedo. I guess we travel in different circles. I went to the wedding and found that when one owns their own, there is apparently much more leeway, including a variety of waistcoats and tie colors (despite black tie being required).

Sadly my friend was a young widower and I was invited to his second wedding that was said to be black tie optional. This time I thought that I would fit in better with some color added. So I was able to rent a tux with a dark red paisley waistcoat and tie. The color was chosen because of colors from the club we met in. I also was able to find cufflinks with the club logo. I thought that would be a fun thing for him to see and for us to trade stories about. I got there to see about 25% in various suits, only a few of them dark. but the 75% that were in black tie, were almost exclusively in black tie and my red one looked very out of place. Nobody was rude enough to say anything but I felt uncomfortable.

Now yesterday I was working an extra shift and found out as I was leaving that there was an event in the lobby of the building to recognize several people being promoted. I decided to stick around for the ceremony, but was upset that I had not checked the e-mail invitation and that I had worn my usual jeans to work. I figured I would stay in the back of the crowd and exit early. Well other than those being promoted and a very few others I did not need to worry. Few if any came in uniform (I am not a uniformed employee so that would not have been an option). I saw many (including supervisors) in jeans, sneakers, a variety of sweatshirts and other very informal styles. Only a few suits and those were definitely the exception not the rule.

So no matter what the invitation says, it is always good to find out what is actually meant my words like formal and casual. I especially hate when these are further qualified with terms like smart casual or business casual.

[Bugbear]

Yes, it seems like many people inhabit a much narrower range of formality than the 1 Kilt 10 Looks scale. Few people ever dress at a white tie level, myself included. We might even need to add another level below what Panache and McMurdo demonstrated, in order to encompass streetwear!

This is where words like "formal" or "semi-formal" start to fall apart. If a tweed jacket and tie is as dressed up as one ever gets, then relatively speaking it is formal. Black tie is a bit more clear for me because at least the name suggests what type of attire it is referring to.

As someone else mentioned, it would make a very interesting study in material anthropology. Perhaps someone might want to write a paper on investigating the shifting meanings of formality in Highland attire across historical, social, cultural, and national boundaries?




I prefer a smaller bow tie, but to each their own. Mine has diamond tips, is made from dupioni silk, and is long enough to fold over one extra time (tripled) in the bow

I wouldn't worry about being a bit overdressed because that would probably send signals out that could be misinterpreted by the rest of the people. I mean literally just relax and let it go if you could because others might read uptightness as you thinking you are superior to them.

I should have said I prefer to wear the wider bow ties.

[auld argonian]

Summing it up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_P7yWnAAd0


Best

AA

[Lime]

Summing it up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_P7yWnAAd0


Best

AA

Brilliant!

[Mike_Oettle]

Never having been invited to a black tie event (let alone white tie), my highest level of formality is dark suit with tie.
I still intend to have my suit jacket cut down to kilt length, but I have worn it (unbuttoned) with the kilt several times this year.
Merely putting on a tie makes me ten times smarter than most folk at most places I go to.
While I know that I can wear hose without flashes, or boots instead of shoes, I prefer to wear the kilt with flashes and shoes. And I very rarely wear a golf shirt outside the house.
So for the most part my casual look is shirtsleeves with open collar, and my formal look includes a tie and (depending on the weather) a jacket. Oh, and my tartan waistcoat (provided I am wearing the kilt that matches it).
Regards,
Mike

[CMcG]

The Vice Chancellor (VC) of the Chinese University of Hong Kong (CUHK) holds a few parties each year for exchange students. The dress code on the invitation is: semi-formal / national costume

What would you wear? The VC is not available for comment and his representatives at CUHK are not well versed in interpreting dress codes...

Here are pictures from one of these events held earlier this year showing the actual range of formality. Unfortunately, no kilts at this one but I'm changing that at the next one!
http://www.cpr.cuhk.edu.hk/en/events...il.php?id=14&s

[Jock Scot]

The Vice Chancellor (VC) of the Chinese University of Hong Kong (CUHK) holds a few parties each year for exchange students. The dress code on the invitation is: semi-formal / national costume

What would you wear? The VC is not available for comment and his representatives at CUHK are not well versed in interpreting dress codes...

Here are pictures from one of these events held earlier this year showing the actual range of formality. Unfortunately, no kilts at this one but I'm changing that at the next one!
http://www.cpr.cuhk.edu.hk/en/events...il.php?id=14&s

Oh dear, I doubt if I am going to be too popular here!

This post is proving my point about hosts not knowing the correct terminology either, just what is semi-formal supposed to mean?So do your research, there must be people around who know the form at this particular event and go from there. What would I do as a Scot in this circumstance without inside information? Actually I don't know and I can't see the pictures to help me! You have a choice, Black tie ,or tweed day jacket and four in hand tie and I think I would go with the latter, with minor adjustments for the climate. BUT--------------

You also have a problem! You are, I think, not a Scot, so the option of wearing the kilt as your national attire is not open to you . Sorry, but that choice is not available to you and you are laying yourself open to criticism if you do wear the kilt, in my view.

Why? One's credentials are all important , particularly in the academic world, so demonstrating to one and all that you are a poser is hardly a wise thing to consider, now is it? I can see the conversation now:-

VISITING SCOTS PROFESSOR: "Ah a fellow Scot eh? What part of Scotland are you from?

YOU: "Er, um , well---- actually I am not a Scot, I am a -------"

V S P: "Oh-----and what are you studying/what is your field?"

YOU: I have a first in intergalactic ballistics and I am studying for a Doctorate"

V S P: With scarcely concealed sarcasm as he starts to walk off: "Really."

What he means is; REALLY?