Paddy, not Patty (just in time)

[O'Callaghan]

I agree with all that's been said. Americans have a knack of making light of serious things.

Cinco de Mayo is another hybrid holiday that we Americans have taken to extremes. It is celebrated in the United States (but only regionally in Mexico, primarily in the state of Puebla where the holiday is called El Día de la Batalla de Puebla, May 5, 1862). In the United States it is a celebration of Mexican heritage that most think of as Mexican Independence day (which is actually September 16th.)

If those of us of Scottich heritage were smarter, we'd co-opt Saint Andrew's (Staint Andy's?) day and have parades, fly Scots flags, close schools and drink Scotch and put plastic thistles in our tams. Oh, yeah, wear costume kilts! It only seems fair.
Dave

In Alexandria, Virginia, they have an annual Scottish Walk on the first Saturday in December, which is invariably the first Saturday after St. Andrew's Day (November 30th), so it is a St. Andrew's Day parade in all but name.

And what is with all the green?

St Patrick's colour is blue.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

Quite true. St. Patrick's colour is blue. The green is thought to originate with the rebellion of 1798 as the colour used to identify the rebels to oneanother. They had green cockades supplied by the French (who they hoped might have supplied arms and perhaps even troops instead), and when these ran out they wore the shamrock, which is undeniably green, and which St. Patrick is said to have used to teach the trinity, because it has three leaves. The only implied reference to St. Patrick's colour being green is, AFAIK, in the song Napper Tandy, aka The Wearing of the Green, in which it says 'his colour can't be seen'.

[creagdhubh]

And what is with all the green?

St Patrick's colour is blue.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

***

[creagdhubh]

They really need to fix that.

At least it's on a Sunday this year!

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...t=sundays+lent

Thus making it a weekend long celebration!

Slainte!

[MNlad]

As long as we are on the subject, let us not forget the most unforgivable U.S. practice of all on this sacred day—American pilsner with a shot of green food coloring. Tis enough to make the blessed Saint hisself weep.

As we all know, there is only one color for beer. int:

[Father Bill]

They really need to fix that.

At least it's on a Sunday this year!

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...t=sundays+lent

Ah yes... but since it is Lent, the observation may be moved to the 16th. (McCausland's Order of Divine Service)

[OC Richard]

Ah yes... but since it is Lent, the observation may be moved to the 16th. (McCausland's Order of Divine Service)

That's the last thing I would want to do, a tAthair! Because Sundays aren't part of Lent, and to all those who have given up the drink... int:

[CelticAchrann]

The ubiquitous North-American use of "St. Patty" instead of "St. Paddy" probably arises, at least in large part, from the fact that, in most North-American English dialects, "Patty" and "Paddy" are phonetically identical. In UK and Irish dialects, there is a distinct difference between the spoken forms of these two words, but in most North-American dialects, and certainly in the dominant ones, the intervocalic "t" is pronounced as "d". Thus, in North America, it is often written "Patty", but always pronounced "Paddy".

I don't know much about elsewhere, but around where I'm from in Pennsylvania the phonetic "t" and "d" are distinctly different. Then again when some of my family moved down south they did pick up on the accident and "water" turned in to something almost like "wooder!"

[aonghas]

In 1998 march 17th I died, so as I figure I am now 15

[KiltFitz]

I don't know who St Patricia or St Patty is but as an Irish Scot born in Ireland and brought up in Scotland by an Irish father and a Scottish mother, it has always been St Patrick's Day or Paddy's Day. The former if talking to the priest or your Granny.
If you're generally discussing what kind of drinking shenanigans you will be getting up to then the latter rolls much more easily with a celtic brogue. Context is everything.

As for St Patrick's colour, well many aspects of his day are probably not in keeping with how he might have wished Ireland to remember him. It is more of a national celebration unless you are very religious. Green, while not being the only colour on the flag, is the colour that most Irish people unite behind. Even sports teams which represent the north (or both) wear green.

To my mind, Scotland is deficient in this area and could do with ramping up the celebration of St Andrews day. Ensuring a public holiday is respected by companies trading in Scotland would be a good start. It is hampered by its place in the calendar however, when the weather is not known for being so clement in Scotland.

[OC Richard]

I don't know much about elsewhere, but around where I'm from in Pennsylvania the phonetic "t" and "d" are distinctly different. Then again when some of my family moved down south they did pick up on the accident and "water" turned in to something almost like "wooder!"

Offtopic but I've heard Pennsylvanians who pronounced "water" almost like "wurder" and made a sound-distinction between Mary, marry, and merry.

As a general rule medial t's don't exist in spoken English; people imagine that they pronounce medial t's the same as initial t's but it's rare, only in certain words such as, ironically, many people's pronunciation of Wimbledon as "wimbul-Tun". To test it, say the word "tea" and carefully note precisely how you're creating the initial "t" sound; then say "butter" "bottle" etc using precisely the same sound that you used for the "t" of "tea", and note how strange it sounds. It's like you have to put in a pause in the middle of the word to bark out that sharp percussive "t". In the USA these medial t's usually become d's while in many places in Britain there's simply an interruption of the air-flow, or a glottal stop.

So yes in the USA (and in most English-speaking places) "Paddy" and "Patty" are pronounced the same. But they shouldn't be spelled the same!