Sporrans and security

[Paul Henry]

Paul,

I disagree about the belt loop thing.

If you look at the photo Tobus posted above, you can plainly see that the center of his belt is up at the level of the straps and buckles. However the sporran loops do not come above the level of the top of the kilt.

If you put the belt through the loops you will be pulling up on the loop lower attachment point. This will distort the fabric and cause a visible "W" pattern to the fabric in the Fell.

After time this distortion will become permanent. I see this often in my shop when people bring me kilts. The only way to get rid of this distortion is with lots of steam and lots of pulling and tugging to get the fabric back into its original shape.

As you know Steve, this is a much discussed subject on this forum, but please remember lots of people wear kilts differently and there are no absolute rules. Yes there can be problems caused badly sized kilts or belts that might distort loops, and of course as we all do agree it shouldn't really be required to hold the kilt on in anycase. Most of the kilts I make I do put belt loops on them, but not always, on some of my own kilts I didn't put them on because I wanted to see what the difference was, I don't mind that they are not there, but somehow it just feels a little better if they are.

edit : Just did a quick search on here for comments on loops , a nice little thread here . and of course if it's good enough for Hamish then it is fine for me as well!

[JonathanB]

I only wore the belt because the kilt looks odd without something. The loops seemed to obvious place for it to this trouser-wearer. I'll experiment.

[John_Carrick]

I agree, Holcombe. This is the type I use:







Coins, notes, a card or two, sticking-plaster (band-aid), headache pills - it is all there.

Regards

Chas

Good suggestions Holcombe and Chas. Thank you.
John

[JonathanB]

I always had a purse for small change even in my trouser wearing days, (three days ago).


I'm wearing a belt without using the loops, and at first belt would ride above the kilt at the back. So I tightened the buckle. Now there's a ruckle at the front.

I raised the subject of belts as I wondered if it would give added security by covering up the buckle of the sporran strap at the back, but I'm suspecting it means there is too much kilt showing above the belt at the front.

Ah well. No right answers.

[creagdhubh]

The belt isn't there to hold the kilt up. That's what the straps/buckles on the kilt are for. The belt is mainly just decoration in today's world (unless you're actually wearing a dirk, which would be its only functional purpose).

Precisely!

[Tobus]

I'm wearing a belt without using the loops, and at first belt would ride above the kilt at the back. So I tightened the buckle. Now there's a ruckle at the front.

Yup. And here's where I give another answer that sounds like a complete 180 from what I said earlier. I do sometimes wear my belt through the loops to prevent that problem of the belt riding up in the rear. It usually only happens when I sit or bend over. I find myself having to constantly reach behind me and make sure the belt is riding at just the right height. It's annoying. So if I'm wearing a jacket that covers it up, I'll go ahead and put the belt through the loops to avoid that problem.

Getting a kilt belt "just right" takes some experimentation. Too loose, and it will sag in the front. Too tight, and it will (as you said) put a 'ruckle' in the kilt. So I find myself wearing my kilt belt as snug as I can go without causing this problem. And even then, I do have to try to smooth it out a bit after the belt is buckled.

Oh well, nothing's perfect.

[ForresterModern]

IMHO after a couple years wearing sporran hangers I find them tending to pull down the front of my belt when the sporran has any contents so have moved back (after losing a bit of weight) to a leather sporran strap. I think either a leather strap or a chain, which has two leather strap sections at the belt buckle, can be cut at the back and a sporran made off with by a "cut purse" type pickpocket. If I wear a jacket as others have said I spread my carried items out into the various pockets and minimize the cargo in the sporran while making access to everything easier. If I don't wear a jacket I usually put a belt pouch on my belt and keep it at my left side or in front of my left abdomen aside the buckle and separated from it by a couple inches. The leather pouch snaps shut, and I typically only keep my "spending cash" (only a part of my total cash) and a small change purse for coins, a credit card, and maybe my cell phone, leaving the majority of my "pants wallet", car keys, larger cache of cash, chapstick, etc... in the sporran. If I have a sweater/jumper on it usually covers the belt and beltpouch so unless the thief sees me accessing it he/she will have no good idea of where my valuables are except in the sporran in front of me.

However, I agree that overall attitude, caution where and when one accesses his belongings, awareness of ones surroundings, general personal carriage and the air of confidence usually lead most potential thieves to choose easier prey. Don't look like a simpleton tourist.

It also does not hurt to be 6 foot 5 and 270 lbs with a bark like a rottweiler either.

[Dale Seago]

However, I agree that overall attitude, caution where and when one accesses his belongings, awareness of ones surroundings, general personal carriage and the air of confidence usually lead most potential thieves to choose easier prey. Don't look like a simpleton tourist.

Yup. I remember a weekend road trip back when I was married, with my wife and a young married couple from my dojo. At one point we stopped at a petrol station to refuel, and while I was pumping the gas everyone else went to use the facilities, get snacks, etc.

On their return my female student was commenting with amazement that I was constantly positioning myself in such a way that no one could approach me without my being aware of it. It's so ingrained that I wasn't even really aware that I was doing it, just making subtle little adjustments in positioning constantly. In my martial art this is referred to as kurai dori -- has to do with taking an advantageous position within the totality of your environment.

It saved the life of one of my students, who has gone on to relocate to Brazil and is now the senior Bujinkan instructor in that country. A few years before that he was on his way home from a late work shift and stopped at an East Bay gas station to fill up, and immediately noticed a guy sitting in a car parked near the office who, when he began filling up, got out and began walking in his direction while trying to keep the pump between himself and my student. He came around the pump and lunged at my student from a rear angle, and my student broke his arm as he threw him across the hood of his car. (The throw, called ganseki nage or "throwing a big rock", does tend to do that.) My student went over to see if the guy was still a threat, confiscated the knife the guy had lunged with, checked to see he still had a pulse, and left.

[Tobus]

On their return my female student was commenting with amazement that I was constantly positioning myself in such a way that no one could approach me without my being aware of it. It's so ingrained that I wasn't even really aware that I was doing it, just making subtle little adjustments in positioning constantly. In my martial art this is referred to as kurai dori -- has to do with taking an advantageous position within the totality of your environment.

I think you mean unagi.

(OK, that's only really funny if you get the reference to the Friends episode...)

[Katia]

It is not much trouble or effort to add an under-apron pocket.

The pocket does not have to match like this one but you get the idea.



You can use any piece of fabric for the apron and small tab of velcro to keep it closed.

I use my under-apron pockets for my valuables when I travel.

I can... only imagine what that looks like when you go fishing for something in public. (somebody had to say it!)

Doesn't it seem bulky, though? If I had my wallet and/or phone in a pocket like that, I would have a very very weird lump in the front of my kilt. (Kind of like how I appreciate that whoever made my running skort put pockets in the shorts part... but boy does it look funny to have a strange lump on my thigh...)



I'd feel slightly safer with a sporran than a purse... (anybody tries to just yank my sporran and they'll be dragging me down the street, as opposed to just pulling a purse off my shoulder) and because it's in front of you, I would imagine it's harder for a pickpocket than carefully lifting your wallet out of your back pocket without you ever seeing him/her. And, well, anybody audacious enough to just go grabbing for the part of my body that my sporran sits in front of... with any luck, their next acquaintance with Scottish attire would be with the business end of my sgian dubh.

I adore a sporran. I hate purses with a passion, but let's face it, not always easy for me to keep my essentials (wallet, keys, phone) in a pocket unless I'm wearing cargo pants. Wallet looks funny (my butt tends to look twice as big on one side), phone (even my small phone) is hard to fit in a hip pocket (I'm not all that big and my pockets aren't either) and keys... forget it; they usually get clipped to a belt loop and stuffed slightly into one pocket (i admit to having way too much crap on my keychain). When I'm kilted, it's oh-so-easy... sporran!


Me, I'm not sure I'd mess with a dude who's willing to go out in public in what many might consider a "skirt," but that might just be me. (Seriously, though, if I were thinking in terms of "easy target," I'd still think that way. Also might not go for someone too unusually-dressed who might attract more attention from other people as a general rule. I'd rather subtly pick the pocket of someone who blends into the background and won't have a lot of curious eyes on them.)