so this is what we've come to? (Prince Charlie)

[KiltFitz]

Leave 'em be I say.

I've been to a couple of weddings (and funerals) this year where kilts have been worn. Admittedly they haven't been in the Highlands and the kilted Scots in attendance (in either case) have not been die-hard kilties but they've worn the kilt as it's expected for them to do so, they're Scottish after-all.

They wear what they wear on the best hire shop advice which says, "this is the outfit". They don't argue the toss because firstly, they don't know, and secondly, they won't be wearing the kilt again anytime soon (till next time they hire it) and the ensemble offered matches (loosley) what they've seen before at other similar events... You're safe in numbers.

Another way to put it is they don't give a stuff... It's the overall effect they are after but there is no desire to invest in a personal Kilt outfit or wear the kilt outside of the special occasion, it's a Scottish statement, but it isn't every day dress, it's a now and again garment so no reason to spend big pounds on something you won't keep. There will always be a hire shop.

It shouldn't matter to us. The people who wear this kind of rented outfit are not as obsessed as we are and are happy to "borrow" a kilt when it suits.

We shouldn't worry ourselves. It's how it's sold to them. Most folk are happy with that, as it achieves the desired result... What is worn at Scottish weddings these days isn't going to change the way I wear the kilt. Then again, how I wear MY kilt isn't going to change the way Scottish weddings are conducted. Regardless of how much I spend on socks...

(Please don't tell my wife I spent 80 quid on a pair of socks...)

Live and let live...

That's a good point, well made. It's a good summing up of the situation, but isn't it a little sad?

In order to move these guys away from looking like a hire department mannequin, I often show them pictures posted on XMTS. The guys and girls are usually fascinated with the range of choice (and creativity of our members at times) that is actually available. As far as money goes, I usually explain the following:

You could spend £600 putting together a good, well chosen, well-fitting outfit, especially if you go ebay or ex-hire for sundries. If you love it, it will pay for itself quickly (especially in Scotland). If you don't like it, it will resell for about £450 - £500. Why pay over £100 for a hire outfit with a naff tartan that was designed to match napkins which you only have for a few days? The answer? It takes too long to put the outfit together because shops carry limited ranges.

Again, the hire business wins by virtue as being the main retail point also. Most people outwith the pipe band community are unaware of the choice online either. It's up to us to start the revolution I think.

[sailortats]

Boy, I must be barking up the wrong tree. Either that or I am already dead and don't realize it but other than the belt with the PC and that awful sporran, I like the outfit. I would be happy to wear it for a proper occasion.

[rondo]

As someone fairly new to this how could this look (easily?) be corrected? I don't think many have the means to do the lovely example of evening wear OC Richard provided.

Assuming you wanted to keep the modern look [Ruche tie] but want to look less like you just fell out of the hire shop:

1. Lose the fly plaid.
2. Go with a more tasteful sporran
3. Colored, diced, or argyle hose
4. If you stay with the ruche tie you must go with a 5 or 6 button waistcoat
5. Regular oxford shoes, not gillies
6.If wearing a waistcoat lose the dirk belt
7. To my eye several other things look off, sleeves look too long on his shirt, the Prince Charlie looks too big

I actually like the look of a ruche tie with a high cut waistcoat but everything else has to be spot on, the more one deviates from traditional norms the tighter every other aspect of the outfit must be. These are my opinions and worth what you paid for them so take it as that. Fit, in my opinion, is everything and this outfit does not seem to fit this model very well.
Rondo

[Pleater]

I find the way that the fly plaid pulls the left shoulder back, making the whole of that side of the jacket higher than the other, really niggles me. The fitting, or perhaps the tailoring of the jacket seems poor anyway, over large and loose, but the addition of the fly plaid just makes it that little bit worse.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[OC Richard]

There are lots of men here in Scotland who wear kilts for only two occasions: football and weddings.

...the industry panders to such whims as the desire to have tartan match ladies dresses, choice of wedding colour scheme... "Can you pick a fuchsia tartan with hints of cream and emerald?"

Many excellent points there.

I used to pipe at a large number of weddings- at the height I was doing a wedding just about every weekend, perhaps 40 to 50 a year.

Yes the Bride (and Bride's mother) are often obsessed about the 'wedding colours' and don't want anything to clash.

It's interesting (to me) that most pipers never think about that, never ask about the wedding colours in advance. I always do, and will select from my few different kilts and hose etc things that, if they don't really match, at least don't clash. At that time I tended to wear a Black Watch kilt with the rest of my kit being black & white so as not to impose clashing bright colours on the weddings.

Now, the Brides and Moms might be driving the Scottish fad for purple tartans, but I notice that The Tartan Army also loves purple tartans, or I should say tartans with blue and purple.

BTW with weddings around here one doesn't see purple all the time. Wedding colours can be stange sometimes: at one, the colours were black and orange.

About Prince Charlies, I hadn't owned one for some years, until I happened to see on in just my size going cheaply on Ebay.

When The Black Watch came to town I grabbed it... sad to say it hadn't come with a waistcoat so I had to use the one from my Argyll jacket. Anyhow I certainly don't have the panache and elegance of that gent in the 1936 Anderson catalogue (with tartan waistcoat and castellated hose) but I'm following what seems to me to be appropriate/traditional for Evening Dress, with tartan hose and buckled shoes etc

[OC Richard]

Oh about the sgian in the wrong leg: he's presumably a model who has been dressed by the firm for the photo shoot, not a fellow who has dressed himself and has put the sgian there because he's lefthanded.

[Bing]

Although I don't profess to be any great expert on highland attire, I am frequently asked by friends or friends of my girlfriend to take the groom in hand with regards to his "kilt outfit". I am usually tasked with the following:

1) Make sure the groom's party all wear the same tartan. Why? Because then the photos afterward will be easier to arrange.

2) Make sure that the tartan chosen fits in with the bride's/bride's mother/wedding planner/every other member of the bride's party and family's concept of a colour scheme.

3) The cost of hiring outfits for the groom's party should be a mere fraction of the cost of the bride's dress and pale in miniscule obscurity when compared with the overall cost of the wedding which the groom (jointly at least) will be saddled with the responsibility of paying off for years to come. But he shouldn't think that he is entitled to wear what he chooses because that would be selfish.

Short answer, a wedding is the "Bride's Day!". The groom is merely an accessory. In my circle of friends most were told to 'dress up, show up and shut up'. The only things a groom needs remember is how to say is "Yes dear" and "I do".

Ask Father Bill, I bet he could tell some doozies.

[GRKilt]

That's a good point, well made. It's a good summing up of the situation, but isn't it a little sad?

Again, the hire business wins by virtue as being the main retail point also.

Pragmatically speaking, this is an industry like any other. If the hire business offers a product people buy willingly, how is that sad?

My father-in-law has always said, "They have so many, they have to sell them."

[Kilted Cole]

-added bonus: sgian in wrong leg

I always thought that, that didn't matter. Given a left handed person WOULD wear it in the left. Function before fashion. Just my 2 bits. But I also must agree with the whole belt worn with waist coat thing....unless you are wearing a dirk with it. Example would be Chief of Clan Farquharson who is known to wear the two together.

[KiltFitz]

It's sad because the choice is poor in comparison with what people could obtain for their money. The hire shops are also the main high street retailers. They choose their stock lines in order to fit in with a cheap line of supply from a few factories and generally ignore craft and artisan products. They treat customers as sheep in most of these places, telling them what they should be wearing and on occasion, tell fibs or mislead them in order to overcome objections.

Pragmatically speaking, any transaction where one party exchanges currency for product is an industry like any other. That doesn't mean I would encourage anyone who is an inexperienced buyer to ask the seller what to spend their money on (with the girlfriend's permission of course). If a mate of mine took me with him when he wanted a new car, I would be pretty horrified to see him pull out his wallet in the showroom and tell the salesperson "My wife says I can spend X amount on a new car, can you tell me what you think I should spend it on?".