Daywear outfit

[TheOfficialBren]

Really? Surely this must be subjective. My tweed jackets and waistcoats come close to my doublet(s) and coatee in terms of cost, but are still miles away.

Fair enough, Kyle. A valid point as per your usual posts, my friend. How on earth does informal wear come even close in cost to formal wear, though? "Miles away" seems to be the kicker there. Am I missing something? I know that one gets what one pays for but I do see what looks like a big inconsistancy here between formal wear which seems to actually be cheaper than some informal wear.

Quality is not necessarily equal to cost (although, I concede, that it often is).

I do understand that you get what you pay for, though, but smartly turned out need not always translate to heavy production cost that is transferred to the consumer.

What if a tailor made jackets that were nice but also a bit more affordable to the average kiltie just getting into this sort of thing?
Our hypothetical kiltie can now achieve a desired look with a quality but cost effective garment. Is it a finely bespoke Argyl from a legendary tailor? Well, no, but it isn't trying to be, either. It's his informal jacket (I hesitate to say 'casual'). He wears it to the office on casual Friday or to march in a parade on a hot day and not to meet his Chief for the first time at the clan society luncheon hosted by said chief at his castle. He saves his really nice tweed jacket for those occasions where he would like to take it up a notch further like taking the missus out for a nice dinner or whatever couples do.

Clear as mud, mate?


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Thank you, Highlander31 for the background info. I did notI was pointing put that Harris tweed is not the only tweed. There are many fine tweeds to be found globally and woven by reputable weavers.


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We might all be coming from different angles, too. Completely Harris tweed from a highly visible Scottish firm in the business for over a century...or a new company (or new product line from an existing company that is branching out). They're not really in the same galaxy so the element of competition isn't realistically there.

A Lexus driver drives a Lexus because he can (but it's still a Toyota). A Toyota is still a very nice car but is usually more affordable for most folk.

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With these points I shall now bow out and offer my apologies if I became too domineering to the conversation.

[Nathan]

Fair enough, Kyle. A valid point as per your usual posts, my friend. How on earth does informal wear come even close in cost to formal wear, though? "Miles away" seems to be the kicker there. Am I missing something? I know that one gets what one pays for but I do see what looks like a big inconsistancy here between formal wear which seems to actually be cheaper than some informal wear.

Quality is not necessarily equal to cost (although, I concede, that it often is).

I do understand that you get what you pay for, though, but smartly turned out need not always translate to heavy production cost that is transferred to the consumer.

What if a tailor made jackets that were nice but also a bit more affordable to the average kiltie just getting into this sort of thing?
Our hypothetical kiltie can now achieve a desired look with a quality but cost effective garment. Is it a finely bespoke Argyl from a legendary tailor? Well, no, but it isn't trying to be, either. It's his informal jacket (I hesitate to say 'casual'). He wears it to the office on casual Friday or to march in a parade on a hot day and not to meet his Chief for the first time at the clan society luncheon hosted by said chief at his castle. He saves his really nice tweed jacket for those occasions where he would like to take it up a notch further like taking the missus out for a nice dinner or whatever couples do.

Clear as mud, mate?


----

Thank you, Highlander31 for the background info. I did notI was pointing put that Harris tweed is not the only tweed. There are many fine tweeds to be found globally and woven by reputable weavers.


----

We might all be coming from different angles, too. Completely Harris tweed from a highly visible Scottish firm in the business for over a century...or a new company (or new product line from an existing company that is branching out). They're not really in the same galaxy so the element of competition isn't realistically there.

A Lexus driver drives a Lexus because he can (but it's still a Toyota). A Toyota is still a very nice car but is usually more affordable for most folk.

--

With these points I shall now bow out and offer my apologies if I became too domineering to the conversation.

Bren,

I enjoy your lively and thoughtful posts and when I state another perspective, I don't want that point of respect to be lost. Your premise is that informal wear should cost less than formal wear. I think there are many instances in the textile market where this is not the case.

I can get a pair of smart dress shoes for less than the latest sneakers by Nike, or a good quality pair of safety boots or even cowboy boots. There are high end and low end options for both dress clothing and informal clothing.

My smart casual club shirts from a mid-range store like Club Monaco cost more than my traditional cotton tuxedo shirts.

A pair of designer jeans costs about the same as a pair of wool dress pants. A designer sports coat from Holt Renfrew will cost you more than a tuxedo from Moores.

The great thing about Highland wear is that traditional garments don't go out of style or change as fast as saxon attire. A gentleman of your size should be able to find a suitable vintage tweed shipped from ebay for under $100. If you buy a saxon suit of the same vintage, you'll look very retro. Your tweed will look like a million bucks.

The other thing I'll say is that if I had to choose between a cheap day jacket or a cheap Prince Charlie, I'd choose the cheap Prince Charlie and pay for a quality tweed. I'll be wearing the day jacket far more often and so the poor quality would quickly show. - It's like the old adage, spend the most money on your every day shoes; they NEED to be good quality.

One final point, the formal jackets we wear with Highland attire were originally made to be worn with real sterling silver buttons since the Highlanders liked to wear their money rather than carry it. If you get a top of the line bespoke doublet with sterling silver rather than chrome buttons, it will cost you more than a top of the line tweed Argyll with horn buttons. I think Phil has a bespoke doublet like this with silver buttons and I would assume it cost him more than his best tweed.

Certainly, when it comes to sporrans, the formal ones cost more than the daywear ones, ceteris paribus. Sure, you can get a dress sporran from Pakistan that will cost you less than a day sporran from Artificer but you get my point.

The thing is, since we wear it so infrequently much of the formal wear on the market today is a step above costume quality rather than the investment pieces and currency they were in days gone by. Just my thoughts on the question.

[TheOfficialBren]

Thank you for your compliments and courtesy, Nathan. There were many factors that I did not consider in my original premise and I have learned a lot but have much more to learn.

[Scout]

As everyone has mentioned mbuff's proposed outfit would be perfectly appropriate and he'll likely be better dressed than most men there. But getting back to his original question I think there's a fair amount of confusion (especially among the newly kilted) caused by the term "daywear". The term has less to do with the time of day that it's worn than it does with its level of formality. What we might typically call "daywear" can be appropriate regardless of the hour for occasions that don't call for more formal "evening wear."

The convention that I was always taught was that "evening wear" (black tie) shouldn't be worn before 5:00 pm. That doesn't mean however, that "daywear" shouldn't be worn after 5:00 pm! I would think that unless an event calls for formal wear that what most of us call "daywear" is perfectly fine.

Just my $.02 worth!

[BCAC]

Bren,

I enjoy your lively and thoughtful posts and when I state another perspective, I don't want that point of respect to be lost. Your premise is that informal wear should cost less than formal wear. I think there are many instances in the textile market where this is not the case.

I can get a pair of smart dress shoes for less than the latest sneakers by Nike, or a good quality pair of safety boots or even cowboy boots. There are high end and low end options for both dress clothing and informal clothing.

My smart casual club shirts from a mid-range store like Club Monaco cost more than my traditional cotton tuxedo shirts.

A pair of designer jeans costs about the same as a pair of wool dress pants. A designer sports coat from Holt Renfrew will cost you more than a tuxedo from Moores.

The great thing about Highland wear is that traditional garments don't go out of style or change as fast as saxon attire. A gentleman of your size should be able to find a suitable vintage tweed shipped from ebay for under $100. If you buy a saxon suit of the same vintage, you'll look very retro. Your tweed will look like a million bucks.

The other thing I'll say is that if I had to choose between a cheap day jacket or a cheap Prince Charlie, I'd choose the cheap Prince Charlie and pay for a quality tweed. I'll be wearing the day jacket far more often and so the poor quality would quickly show. - It's like the old adage, spend the most money on your every day shoes; they NEED to be good quality.

One final point, the formal jackets we wear with Highland attire were originally made to be worn with real sterling silver buttons since the Highlanders liked to wear their money rather than carry it. If you get a top of the line bespoke doublet with sterling silver rather than chrome buttons, it will cost you more than a top of the line tweed Argyll with horn buttons. I think Phil has a bespoke doublet like this with silver buttons and I would assume it cost him more than his best tweed.Certainly, when it comes to sporrans, the formal ones cost more than the daywear ones, ceteris paribus. Sure, you can get a dress sporran from Pakistan that will cost you less than a day sporran from Artificer but you get my point.

The thing is, since we wear it so infrequently much of the formal wear on the market today is a step above costume quality rather than the investment pieces and currency they were in days gone by. Just my thoughts on the question.

My bold, Nathan (nice post, by the way). Phil posted recently that his bespoke doublet cost £1200. No idea of the price of his best tweed though. Maybe he'll pop in here to let everyone know.

[Jock Scot]

I cannot answer for Phil, but I have just found the bill for my present tweed kilt jacket and waistcoat that was made for me from tweed and buttons provided by myself. The bill dated March 1988 came to 195 guineas, plus VAT (a guinea =£1+ 1 shilling or 105 new pence). I am not sure how that equates to modern costings of today.

So lets play with some figures and for the sake of arguement lets us multiply the 1988 figure by 3?

So in modern money £205 x 3 = £615--------labour.
Tweed at todays price at say £50/yard x 3.5(yards used?)= £ 175-------tweed
Buttons in this case come free---------------= £00----------buttons
Total £790 Plus VAT.

Well ok we can argue about costs, yardages and price increases over twenty five years or so, but some £800 plus VAT, is about what I would expect to pay for a bespoke tweed kilt jacket and waistcoat, today. And I would be more than happy to wear it to any informal event-----although my old jacket would probably be my first choice in that circumstance. In my book "informal" does not necessarily mean cheap.

[TheOfficialBren]

Ah! I am seeing a West Coast USA versus Old World difference in perception. Thank you, gentlemen, for your insight.