Bonnets and badges at Burns dinners.

[David Dubh]

I have to say that Steve has hit the nail on the head. Suddenly in post gulf war /9-11 we see the military, police and fire fighters in a different way. My experience at the Vancouver Police Pipe Bands Burns Supper was miniature medals on the firemen. No hats indoors except for the pipe band when they performed and one lassie in a borrowed Balmoral.
Cheers David

[The Wizard of BC]

As a follow-up to my last - I know that some of our members outside of the US may not understand all this stuff with kilts/uniforms/awards as it exists in the minds of Americans.

In European countries one does not wear the full academic gowns and other regalia of the School you attended while on the street 20 years after your attendance. But you may wear a school tie as a subtle statement of your time there.
A Regimental tie is much the same. A civilian manifestation of your military service in a particular Regiment.
To many of you the kilt is viewed differently. The kilt and Tartan are more about family and not something you think of as a uniform. You may have worn a kilt while in the military but today you would feel that wearing the same Tartan is like wearing a regimental tie.


You may see Americans as misunderstanding the kilt and Tartan. - The kilt is not part of any US Military uniform. The kilt has no military tradition in the US.

Yet today in the US the kilt is recognized as a quasi or civilian uniform item that would be acceptable for wear by someone with prior military service.

As an example here are snippets from the website of The Scottish American Military Society.

"The Scottish–American Military Society (SAMS) was founded and chartered in North Carolina, April 12, 1981, as a non-profit organization -
“To preserve and promote Scottish and American Armed Forces customs, traditions, and heritage”
The Society was founded as a veterans organization. - The membership is composed primarily of veterans of Scottish ancestry who have served –– or are serving –– in the Armed Forces of the United States and the Commonwealth.
Membership is open to honorably discharged veterans or active duty or reserve military persons who have served or are serving with any branch of the United States or Commonwealth Armed Forces."

I know that many members of X Marks are also members of SAMS.

Further -
All one need do is notice the US Military Tartans. With the exception of the Tartan of the US Coast Guard none of them are officially recognized by the branch of the military they are named for and none of them are authorized to be worn as part of the rest of the normal Uniform. But they do exist and are worn by many X Marks members.

It is one way for you to say to the world "I am a kilt wearer, and I served in the military".

I am convinced that a lot of the reason behind this stems from the events I mentioned in my previous post.
As an example of how the attitude has changed since I returned from Viet-Nam may I offer this;

Many Police cars in the US, have printed on the fender, the phrase "In an Emergency - Dial 911". For those in the UK 911 is the US equivalent of your 999.
In my day there was a joke that a drunk stole a police car because he saw the printing and thought he was stealing a Porsche.

But today there is a very subtle change to what is printed on Police Cars.
Where before you would see -
In an Emergency - Dial 911

Today you will see -
In an Emergency - Dial 9-11

It is amazing the emotional impact a simple hyphen can have in the US. Perhaps it is just one of those things you had to live through to understand.

[Glen]

Glen.... Living down the QE2 from you, the only Burns supper where it would be appropriate to display one's medals or other such decorations would be if the Burns supper organizers had some military affiliation.
Approximately 15% of Canadians claim to have Scottish ancestry, but I for example would never refer to myself as Scottish, I am Canadian.
And yes, Burns was part of my Literary education in Saskatchewan. I can still recite by heart "Red, Red Rose".

Slainte

What a shame for Calgary used to have such a strong representation with military personnel, present and former; however, the brigade moved up here some years ago. Don't know if the Calgary Highlanders hold a Burns Supper.

There are so many organizations holding Burns Suppers that events occur over three weekends, and again many wearing orders, decorations and medals. It will be the RCMP Pipe Band Burns Supper this weekend for me and mine to attend, having been out of town the past two weeks. Three hours makes all the difference.



Half the town I was first raised in was Scotts, first, second and third generations; Exshaw. West of you is also Cochrane, Canmore, and Banff. I rolled my 'R's' till I moved to Calgary for school. Things have changed.

Of course, the question arrises of what is a "Canadian'...

[Liam]

Of course, the question arrises of what is a "Canadian'...

Being Canadian (and also American, Scottish, French, Mexican....) is a matter of citizenship, and has nothing to do with some peoples' notion of "race" or DNA, or religion, or indeed ancestry.

Cheers

[macwilkin]

You may see Americans as misunderstanding the kilt and Tartan. - The kilt is not part of any US Military uniform. The kilt has no military tradition in the US.

Don't tell the 79th New York, the USNA, USMA and USCG Pipes and Drums that. <grin>

Both the USAF and USAFR have maintained pipe bands:

http://scottishtartans.org/USAF.htm

I can't speak for the academies, but the kilt is most certainly part of the uniform of the United States Coast Guard, Coast Guard Reserves and Auxiliary through the band:

"Members of the Coast Guard Pipe Band wear the uniform and insignia to which they are entitled as active duty, reserve, retired, or Auxiliary members of the Coast Guard or honorably discharged war time veterans of the Coast Guard, as specified in the Coast Guard Uniform Regulations (COMDTINST 1020.6 series) and Coast Guard Auxiliary Manual, modified for wear with the kilt as set forth in the Coast Guard Pipe Band Uniform Regulations."

-- http://www.uscgpipeband.org/faq.php

Semper Paratus.

PAO, Flotilla 5-2, 8th WR, USCGAUX

[rmccool]

<snip!>

I am convinced that a lot of the reason behind this stems from the events I mentioned in my previous post.
As an example of how the attitude has changed since I returned from Viet-Nam may I offer this;

Many Police cars in the US, have printed on the fender, the phrase "In an Emergency - Dial 911". For those in the UK 911 is the US equivalent of your 999.
In my day there was a joke that a drunk stole a police car because he saw the printing and thought he was stealing a Porsche.

But today there is a very subtle change to what is printed on Police Cars.
Where before you would see -
In an Emergency - Dial 911

Today you will see -
In an Emergency - Dial 9-11

It is amazing the emotional impact a simple hyphen can have in the US. Perhaps it is just one of those things you had to live through to understand.

Steve, I agree with your assessment. These days, many Americans who've served in the military wear service-related clothing, pins, etc. as both a display of patriotism and as a sign of solidarity with, and support for, the men and women who're serving today.

As for policing and firefighting in the US, yes, it's widely perceived as a brotherhood - even (or even especially) among those who are unpaid volunteers. Uniformed public safety service is also seen (in most parts of the US) as a sort of paramilitary function... not quite military service, but not really "civilian" either. It reminds me of what a Native American friend once told me, after he'd invited everyone who was an active or retired military service member or emergency responder to enter the arena at a powwow for a warrior dance. He said, as best I can approximate, "Whoever takes on the job of putting themselves between the people and whatever is going to hurt them, and risks his life for others, is a warrior." I think that attitude is becoming widespread in the US today, and despite issues such as the persistent mistrust between police and certain segments of our society, and legitimate questions about the way some of our military actions have been conducted, post-9/11 America loves her warriors. Given the current state of public sentiment in the US, the wear of decorations and other items associated with military or public safety service with "civilian" attire isn't really surprising.

[Dileasgubas]

http://www.gg.ca/pdf/Honours%20Weari...02013E_web.pdf

The above link, from the Canadian Governor-General's website, sets out the guide for Canada. Page 8 details the occasions for the wearing of medals and miniatures.

I suspect that many other countries would have a similar protocol guide.

As for head dress, our veterans wear the Glengarry and badge for Regimental functions, and usually with a jacket and grey slacks. Indoors, head dress is not normally worn unless the person is working (i.e., the piper). And since the point of wearing a head covering is to protect the head from the elements, it kind of makes sense.

Hope this helps.

[RichardM]

At the Burns night dinner hosted by the Caledonia Society of Idaho here in Boise I did not see any military decorations. I did wear my retirement lapel pin. However I wore it on my kilt just above the hat pin I was using as a kilt pin. I doubt anyone noticed. I didnt see that many men in kilts. Most men wore pants. Some wore jeans and t-shirts or polo shirts.

The only glengarry hats I saw were on the pipers. I saw a few people in hats but in the US hats inside are common. I don't like wearing a hat at the dinner table but that is me. I went to dinner at a nice Italian place on Monday. I saw a man in shorts and a baseball cap eating dinner.

Personally I dont think I would ever wear a Glengarry myself, because it reminds me of my military flight cap and I never liked wearing what felt like an upside down envelope on my head. I like a tweed cap instead.

[416 Rigby]

Well said Steve and rmccool.

Yes, thankfully, attitudes about the Service have changed. I recently saw a gentleman in a store wearing a "Vietnam Veteran" ball cap. I walked up to him, offered my hand, and said "Excuse me, sir. I noticed your hat. Thank you for your service." As we shook hands, the look on his face was one of surprise that quickly changed to one of pride. Sometimes little things like that can make someone's day.

As for rules about wear of service items with civilian clothing, I'm certain each service's regulations cover it. The Coast Guard's do.

Jock, about the only time I see such wear is on Veterans Day or other ceremonies honoring service members. I've only been to a couple Burns Nights, and they were at someone's home and were a smaller, more relaxed affair, maybe 30 people, but I've never seen medals there. I wouldn't wear mine because I don't feel it's relevant.

[OC Richard]

Thanks Steve for those excellently written posts.

I too lived through those times and the mood-swings in this country are exactly as you describe.

I work at Disneyland and see tens of thousands of 'the general public' every day and "Vietnam Veteran" caps are quite common. Less common are Gulf War veteran caps, and rare of course are Korean War and WWII caps. Many people wear caps or t-shirts with USMC or ARMY on them. Yes people are proud of their service, and it's common for strangers to come up and say "thank you for your service."

My father-in-law, who as a young Army officer fought in the South Pacific in WWII, never went in for any such stuff. In a little frame on the wall are his medals, his Bronze Star and campaign medals, and his insignia, but I've never seen him wear anything which showed his service. Seems that men of that generation took military service for granted, because such a vast number served.

I took it upon myself to buy him a striped necktie in the pattern of the WWII victory medal. I don't know if he ever wore it. Now he has passed.

My grandfather, a WWI veteran, only wore a tiny miniature of his Silver Star in his suit jacket lapel.

The flip side of this is how many people in the UK and Dominions wear poppies. This is unheard of here. I wear one and nobody knows what it is. But at Disneyland we see many Canadians wear them. So, there is vast general support of the military but it's expressed differently.

I've also noticed a difference in Scotland due (I think) to the system of local recruitment. When a battalion returns from overseas service they parade through the streets, Veterans join the parade, and thousands of locals line the streets to cheer. That's completely foreign to us. Here one joins a vast generic Army, is posted in whatever unit the Army chooses, the unit is posted on a vast military base, and when a unit returns from overseas it doesn't have the same local impact.

Here's The Black Watch parading through the streets. You can see at 1:56 the veterans following behind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyD370_mv5c