Rethinking Irish Kilts (and a previously unseen vintage pic!)

[macwilkin]

Being a communicant in the Episcopal Church (an Episcopalian is a member, like Scotch is a drink) for over a quarter of a century, plus a vestryman, sub-deacon and altar server, I'm aware of the differences between the C. of I., C. of E., ECUSA and SEC. :-)

T.

[John_Carrick]

AFAIK he was christened Patrick, but preferred to go by the Irish version, pronounced something like Porrig, but spelt Padraig. His father was English, so his last name would definitely have been the Anglo version, at least on his birth certificate. OTOH, Eamonn deValera was an American, and wound up running the country largely because his US citizenship saved him from execution, for fear of a diplomatic incident. All his contemporaries amongst the leadership were killed by the British, except one other, and she was a woman. The, to us, odd sensibilities of the time saved her from death and kept her out of office for the same reason.

The woman was Constance Markievicz, first woman elected to the House of Commons (although she did not take her seat), member of the Dail and a minister in the Irish cabinet. Tragically she died vey young in about 1928. Sorry this doesn't have much to do with kilts.

[Jack Daw]

Late to the party! I dunno if I'm the epitome of anything, but I am mostly Irish, and do wear the kilt in saffron and Irish themed tartans as a part of that Celtic identity.

Okay, you're the pity of everyone.

[O'Callaghan]

Being a communicant in the Episcopal Church (an Episcopalian is a member, like Scotch is a drink) for over a quarter of a century, plus a vestryman, sub-deacon and altar server, I'm aware of the differences between the C. of I., C. of E., ECUSA and SEC. :-)

T.

I'm sure you are, but many people here may not even realise that these are all related.

[O'Callaghan]

The woman was Constance Markievicz, first woman elected to the House of Commons (although she did not take her seat), member of the Dail and a minister in the Irish cabinet. Tragically she died vey young in about 1928. Sorry this doesn't have much to do with kilts.

I stand corrected.

[macwilkin]

I'm sure you are, but many people here may not even realise that these are all related.

Understood.

[OC Richard]

I'm aware of the differences between the C. of I., C. of E., ECUSA and SEC. :-)

And there's the UECNA and the AECUS. I recently ran into an old pipe band mate, at a local Games, and was surprised to discover that he's now an Anglican Priest.

Here's his Parish, fittingly called Saint Patrick's

http://www.spuecna.org/

and here's something about his denomination

http://www.unitedepiscopalchurch.org/parishes.html

[FinnKilt]

A nice thread – I like the recognition that tradition may be invented and yet have value :-)
As someone (to my knowledge) with no Celtic ancestry – Yorkshire Anglo-Norse, most likely – who took to wearing kilts three years ago purely out of preference, I have steered clear of tartans on the grounds of their definite (however invented!) links with specific clans, regiments, etc in North Britain, and all my kilts are in plain colour: black, dark green, khaki, and brown. So in addition to the obvious assumptions that I must be Scottish, I do get accosted by somewhat better-informed strangers assuming I must be Irish.
I love the saffron colour, but feel I need to steer clear of it as being 'taken' by the kilt-wearers of West Britain.

Perhaps I should add that the 'North and West Britain' references are means as heavily ironic hat-tips to English intra-archipelagic imperialism. I used to lecture on the history of English-speaking world (broadly, not narrowly defined) and insisted that my students should learn to call the archipelago 'the British and Irish Isles' – unless they preferred my other favourite 'the Belgian offshore archipelago. ;-)

I also enjoyed Matt Newsome and Todd Wilkinson's article "Hibernian Dress, Caledonian Custom: A Brief History of Irish Kilts and Tartans." Thanks for the link! – but sadly, the pictures don't work on either of my browsers (Safari and Firefox) – they block out sections of text, and it doesn't seem possible to move them. So Matt and Todd, if you do revisit it, could you adjust the settings for the inserted graphics?

[OC Richard]

FinnKilt you might already have, or if you don't you might be interested, in two of my favourite books

Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways In America

by David Hackett Fischer

Old Irish & Highland Dress

by H F McClintock

The former is hands-down the best analysis and history of the original British settlements of America which even today underlie our regional differences in speech, food, politics, onomastics, etc. It's Anglocentric however, using "North Britain" for Scotland just as was in vogue in Britain a couple hundred years ago.

The latter is the best thing I've seen on the original indigenous Irish dress and early Highland dress.

[John_Carrick]

My late mother liked to define herself as a West Brit but that term is generally viewed as an insult in Ireland (RoI)