5.11 TDK is back

**FinnKilt** · 26th June 15, 02:16 PM

I was excited to hear back in May that the 5.11. TDK kilts were out again. I'd never tried one, but the positive comments from so many users were encouraging.
I then spent a very frustrating 2 days trying to place my order and failing. I currently live in the UK (that's the United Kingdom, not the Other UK), and I recognized that there would be problems getting the kilts shipped outside the US, but my idea was to have the kilts delivered to family within the US.
However, I was unable to set up an account, as the first information required was the billing address – and, as it eventually emerged, they don't accept payments from outside the USA. (They are not the only US firm with this blinkered atttitude.) Moreover they state that they accept PayPal payments, which should have circumvented the problem, but I could not see how one was supposed to set up the PayPal arrangement.

When I wrote to their helpdesk, I received the following response (12 May):
Thank you for submitting your inquiry. It has been forwarded to the appropriate department and you will be contacted in a timely manner.
I'm still waiting ...

BUT then I found that there is a firm in the UK which carries 5.11 kilts – a very limited range, and I had to go for olive green (which I do like) rather than the brown and the black (which I really wanted). So I ordered a 38" olive green tactical kilt.
All my other off-the-peg kilts, from a variety of suppliers, are 38" waist. When the TDK arrived, it virtually fell off my hips. I measured the waist (press-stud to matching counterpiece) and it was 41" – a full three inches bigger. Fortunately, the suppliers were willing to exchange it for a size smaller – what is called a 36" and is in fact a measured 39".

I'm happy with the kilt – actually wearing it at this moment. It's comfortable, the pockets do indeed hold an impressive capacity, and I particularly liked the little modesty tag that allows you to fasten the underapron to the left side - useful in turbulent wind.
But just WHAT does the waist measurement refer to? As far as I can see, no part of my lower body has a 36"/37" circumference!

**ratspike** · 26th June 15, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by FinnKilt

But just WHAT does the waist measurement refer to? As far as I can see, no part of my lower body has a 36"/37" circumference!

My understanding of how 5.11 sizes the TDK is that it you're supposed to size them like a pair of Levis. This means that you'd measure your waist, and then order a kilt that's actually a couple inches smaller than that. If your waist measures 36 then you'd order 34. Brilliant, right? I don't think there's even any sizing info at all on the TDK product page, and I've heard LOTS of complaints about stuff not fitting.

It's a really cool product at a great price point, but IMO 5.11 has halfassed it a little bit. To be fair, they never actually planned to make these things and they're not kiltmakers, but I'd still expect a little more from them in a few key areas.

**eahuntley** · 26th June 15, 11:09 PM

I kind of get the impression that 5.11 was assuming anyone who ordered the Kilt was already used to wearing their pants.
American pants sizing is strange, and it's not just for jeans. Almost every pair of pants and shorts I currently wear is a size 38. One is even a size 36. When I measure a few inches below my naval, where my pants sit, I come out at around 41". If I remember correctly, Old Navy is the one who has the biggest sizing discrepancy. Which seems like a weird thing to do for mens clothes. I don't know many men who are worried about someone else finding out how big their waist *really* is...

I once tried to buy a pair of pants in Edinburgh, and I was thoroughly confused. Although, once I figured it out, I think you guys' sizing turned out to be much simpler..

**eahuntley** · 27th June 15, 07:54 AM

A quick question about the TDK: In pictures it looks like the pockets are removable, but the flaps that cover them are tacked down to the kilt itself? Is this the case?

I did notice that 5.11 touts the pockets as "swappable" instead of "removable"....

**ratspike** · 27th June 15, 09:22 AM

Unless the pocket design has changed, you've got it. The body of the pocket is attached to the kilt with snaps, while the flap is permanently sewn down.

**FinnKilt** · 27th June 15, 09:30 AM

Confirmed. The cargo pocket flap remains in place (and thus covers up the 4 (four) snaps).
But you still have the hip pockets.
No bum pocket, which is where I prefer to carry my wallet – but perhaps the TDK is a tad tighter round the bum anyway than many other utility kilts, so it might not look/feel so good.

**Woodsman** · 27th June 15, 12:12 PM

The apron seems unusually narrow. Is this the case? And if so how does this feel wearing it, sitting down, etc.
Thanks
Looks like they're already sold out of some sizes!

**tundramanq** · 3rd July 15, 04:36 AM

Finnkilt, The front pockets are deep, and hang to the front and side when seated so I keep my wallet there. I dislike sitting on my wallet especially for long drives.

Woodsman, the aprons are narrow ( a little wider that the Utilikilts ) but a low inner snap keeps them from opening to any exposure levels sitting or in high wind. The TDK feels good, light and airy in the heat. Lacking back center pleats, there is no need to sweep the pleats sitting and no pile of pleat yardage under you to get butt pressed. I never feel any restriction to any movement. I can't address whether the side pleats hang up on the empty cargo pockets as I leave them off when not needed.

EDIT 7/9/15 - It had been a while since wearing a TDK. Corrected the front pocket info. Only dislike is the 24 inch length This one would be more complicated to crop than a Utilikilt. ( sorry if you aren't familiar with Utilikilts, they are my reference standard for utility kilts. With 42 of them, I know them well

)

**HuDonald** · 3rd July 15, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsman

The apron seems unusually narrow. Is this the case? And if so how does this feel wearing it, sitting down, etc.
Thanks
Looks like they're already sold out of some sizes!

Woodsman, the apron is in fact wider than what's on a utilikilt, but yes, narrower than a traditionally made kilt. Wearing it actually feels fine. I like these TDKs better than the utilikilt I have. I feel like it moves a little easier than a trad. kilt, just because it's lighter and there's less layering to it. However, for the same reasons, you don't get the nice swoosh and swing that comes with a traditional kilt.

For me, the length work out that I can actually wear it at my kilt waist. They are ~24" long, and my usual kilt length is 23.5". The sizing, however, is a vanity size. 38 doesn't actually measure 38", they're more like commercial pant sizes. People say they fit the same size as 5.11 pant sizes. So while I'm at 38" kilt waist, I wear a 36" size with the TDKs. I have a couple that I'm going to add adjustment tabs to because they're too big to begin with, and I lost a little weight.

Inlike not not having back pockets, as sitting on my wallet is really bad for my back. (Or anyone's for that matter) I do enjoy the pockets. My cellphone goes in my front pockets so I can feel it when it rings. My wallet and EDC stuff go in the cargo pockets. I just leave them on. I always end up using them to hold extra stuff or as temporary storage when I need to use both hands for something.

**FinnKilt** · 3rd July 15, 02:58 PM

Point taken about discomfort with a wallet in the bum pocket - it's just what I'm used to. My Elkommando hiking kilts don't have bum pockets either, & that's more of a problem if on a longer hike, as the kikt fabric is superlight, including the cargo pockets, so that a wallet weighs the pocket down awkwardly.

Agree about the comfort of the TDK in hot weather. I started out this morning in a Utilikilt but switched to the TDK as the temperature went (by our standards in England) 'scorching'.