Cultural Appropriation?

[Profane James]

I agree...we're officially out of problems. But, forums for discussion are precisely that.

[KyleAisteach]

This may be the dumbest discussion on this forum.

Is life, so free of problems that we have to go around inventing them. "Cultural appropriation"? Really?! Give me an effing break.

For good or for ill, the organization I'm working with does not have the option of simply dismissing the concern. If people are going to be offended, we cannot take the PR hit. As individuals, of course, we're free to choose to offend (and take whatever consequences come of that), but companies and non-profits need to tread carefully.

I'm hoping, personally, that this isn't something that's likely to offend, because I think kilting up in the organization's tartan would be pretty darned cool.

[DWFII]

I would only add that somebody famous and wise--Socrates--once said that "The unexamined life isn't worth living."

I suspect that if Jock were to weigh in on whether "cultural appropriation" is a valid issue or one worth examining we might get a little different perspective.

It's easy to be dismissive..I'm sure the whole issue, and its implications, is mind-numbingly boring for many. But for myself (only), I am not uncomfortable looking at issues such as this simply because I am near-as-nevermind certain that it helps me avoid both undue and unwarranted self-absorption and a sense of entitlement.

And parenthetically and FWIW...someone said something about the Scottish culture (as it relates to tartan and kilts) being "sold." That resonates to some extent esp. in the context of this discussion. But on further reflection, I am not sure that it is the culture itself that is at fault, so much as the "big people"--such as the organizations facilitating the registering of corporate tartans. The people at the heart of any culture, but esp. this one, are never consulted much less asked to give their consent...as if that would or ever did make a difference.

Personally, I deplore corporate tartans...esp. if they don't have a Scottish connection or ancestry. For me, it's a little like someone...usually a corporation...having the effrontery to patent a DNA or gene sequence.

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[TRWXXA]

For good or for ill, the organization I'm working with does not have the option of simply dismissing the concern. If people are going to be offended, we cannot take the PR hit. As individuals, of course, we're free to choose to offend (and take whatever consequences come of that), but companies and non-profits need to tread carefully.

I'm hoping, personally, that this isn't something that's likely to offend, because I think kilting up in the organization's tartan would be pretty darned cool.

While I am fully on board with you doing what you want, I am going to pass on the best advice I have ever gotten...

"DO NOT base the decisions you make on how you think others will FEEL about them."

The world would be a lot better place if more people had this philosophy. Politicians operate under a completely reverse modus operandi. Those sycophantic braindead idiots can't even order a pizza without running all the available choices through an opinion poll first. And most people will agree they've pretty much cocked the whole world up.

The only people I have to please are myself, my family, my close friends, and my boss. And the last three on the list to a limit only. For those of a religious nature, feel free to add your god to the list -- this aetheist will not be offended.

If you think you might offend someone (and even if you don't), someone is GOING to be offended. Being offended has quickly become a cottage industry, and is rapidly making its way to being "big business". Some people go out of their way to find offense, and will make it up where none exists. Personally, I have better things to do than walk around perpetually aggrieved and slighted. I think contemplating the lint in my naval for hours on end would be time better spent. It's a pathetic existance but many choose it.

The framers of US Costitution listed what they believed to be natural rights of men (Don't get your Underalls in a twist, ladies. That is the plural of "man"... As in "MANkind", and "huMAN" -- the species you belong to.) NOT amongst those rights is a life free from offense, hate, or hurt feelings. But you DO have the right to walk away, think your own thoughts, and speak your own mind. That, of course, will probably "offend" someone else. But they have the right to do the same.

See how it works?

Wear your kilt. Who will it offend? Probably someone. And it'll come out of left field, like a card-carrying member of the North American Alliance of Militant Transvestites, who thinks you're making a mockery of his lifestyle. Or worse....

APPROPRIATING HIS CULTURE!!!

And for anyone who might be offended by my post...
Why the *%&# are you still reading it?! Get a life!

[Nathan]

This story is rather germane to the topic.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...ss-789340.html

[TRWXXA]

I would only add that somebody famous and wise--Socrates--once said that "The unexamined life isn't worth living."

I think he meant that examination to be introspective.

[DWFII]

I think he meant that examination to be introspective.

Of course...but everything we do, every prejudice and opinion, every decision we make, and every way in which we interact with the world around us comes from inside...from introspection.

Or not.

If we dismiss, esp. out of hand, the concerns of people who think "cultural appropriation" is a real thing...perhaps esp. because it is their culture that is being appropriated...we fall prey self-justification and solipsism.

[DWFII]

If you think you might offend someone (and even if you don't), someone is GOING to be offended. Being offended has quickly become a cottage industry, and is rapidly making its way to being "big business". Some people go out of their way to find offense, and will make it up where none exists. Personally, I have better things to do than walk around perpetually aggrieved and slighted. I think contemplating the lint in my naval for hours on end would be time better spent. It's a pathetic existance but many choose it.

The framers of US Costitution listed what they believed to be natural rights of men But you DO have the right to walk away, think your own thoughts, and speak your own mind. That, of course, will probably "offend" someone else. But they have the right to do the same.

I agree with a lot of this--"safe places" are fundamentally hypocritical and fascist/anti-democratic.

That said, there is such a thing as "grace." People don't need to go out of their way to offend. People don't need to dismiss, discount or write others off--the story isn't necessarily about them. It's about all of us.

The way I was raised, recognizing that...is another way of saying "respect."

And if you want respect, you have to be willing to give respect.

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[Liam]

My view is probably going to ruffle some feathers. I don't mean any disrespect to the erudite and eloquent folks that posted their thoughtful comments before me.

In my view, Highland attire has already long-ago been appropriated by non-Highland Scots. The particular combination of tartan, kilt, sporran etc... that was once a recognizable sign of a Gael is no longer symbolic of this cultural group. Rather, the costume of the Gael as well as his music has been appropriated and nationalized by his historical antagonist, the non-Gaelic Scots and, as evidenced by this thread, is now considered "Scottish" attire by many.

The fact that CDN says the Scots were not an oppressed group speaks to the fact that many don't make a distinction between the English Speaking Tobacco and Plantation giants of Glasgow and the poor Gaelic-speaking crofter of the Hebrides. Some Scots were the oppressed and others were the oppressors.

It gets more complicated when we consider the role of class rather than just ethnicity in this history. Lond owning Lairds and Chiefs, while ethnically Gaelic were educated in the English system and became culturally distinct from their tenants. That notwithstanding, they still inherited the traditions of Highland attire and music intergenerationally through their families.

This all happened at a very different time in history and, to be sure, sensitivities were not as they are today around such matters. This particular act of cultural appropriation happened during a period when Highland culture was romanticized and exoticised. Ironically, whilst the culture of the Gael was being celebrated in books and songs, the actual Gaels were facing abject poverty, famine and clearances.

That having been said, the appropriation of Highland culture and its symbols adopted as pan-Scottish culture has actually had a unifying effect on the Scottish populace. Gael and Anglophone alike today regard kilts and bagpipes as Scottish, rather than Highand/Gaelic things. This national unity is certainly not without its good points.

What must next be recognized is that Gaels and Anglo-Scots alike benefited (and continue to benefit) financially from the export of these cultural products to diaspora communities around the world. They also spread throughout the British empire via the military.

It is, therefore, difficult to say that something has been stolen when it has, in fact, been sold. Woolen mills, weavers and outfitters in Inverness and other Highland communities have been enriched from the export of this culture as much as anyone.

In summary, many identifiable elements of Gaidhlig culture have been appropriated but it happened so long ago that there is no putting the genie back in the bottle. At this point, all that can be hoped for is that some respect be shown toward these things by those who are enthusiastic about them.

Especially in the Scottish context, the walls between nationality, language, territory, culture and class are porous rather than tall and rigid so the language used to describe the European American's adopting of Aboriginal North American symbols and culture don't really fit like a glove. Still, they can provide some food for thought.

Slàinte mhath!

Natan

I would go further and say as a result of the "Clearances" Highland culture wasn't sold, but thrown out in many cases. Those who were thrown out spread their Highland culture around the world.

[Nathan]

I would go further and say as a result of the "Clearances" Highland culture wasn't sold, but thrown out in many cases. Those who were thrown out spread their Highland culture around the world.

You'd be right about that!