Matching Flashes and necktie with Tartan? Poor form?

[OC Richard]

If you're trying to look like you're from Scotland, then you might do one thing... What kind of Scot would you like to resemble?

You're a cool guy, Alan, but I disagree with that assumption.

People can wear clothes that they like simply because they like to wear those clothes.

I like traditional Highland Dress. I'm an American. I'm not from Scotland and have no desire to pretend to be from Scotland. Such notions would never enter my mind.

[OC Richard]

The Gordon Pipe band is located in Tacoma WA.
http://www.cgpb.org/

A very nice-looking band you have there!

Back in the late 1970s-early 1980s I played in a band down here that had a uniform loosely based on that of The Gordon Highlanders.

Of course the pipers of the Gordons didn't wear feather bonnets, or such elaborate doublets, or kilt ribbons. Our Pipe Major was something of a peacock and he loved to have everything a bit over-the-top. We did have the correct tartan, black spat buttons, and red/white hose for pipers and red/black hose for drummers, like the Gordons.

Here I am, early 1980s, in my role as Pipe Sergeant, in our band kit

[RockyR]

You're a cool guy, Alan, but I disagree with that assumption.

People can wear clothes that they like simply because they like to wear those clothes.

I like traditional Highland Dress. I'm an American. I'm not from Scotland and have no desire to pretend to be from Scotland. Such notions would never enter my mind.

I understood Alan's comment differently. It wasn't really pointed towards Americans (or those outwith Scotland) so much as poking at the fact that there are different schools of thought WITHIN Scotland on what is "correct / acceptable". We often see Jock and a few other "seasoned" gentlemen who wear a kilt the same way (give or take) that they were taught growing up 50 - 150 years ago (he types with tongue firmly planted in cheek). That is very traditional, completely acceptable and often very well done and universally accepted as "good taste". I fully admit to having learned a thing or three from them and borrow from their style on occasion.

On the other hand, just as there are Americans (and others) who, according to some traditionalists, butcher Scottish highland dress, there are some Scots who do the same and little focus seems to be put on that fact. We tend to paint with a broad brush of "Non Scottish native" when it comes to less than traditional way of wearing highland dress.

Alan, please accept my apology if that's not what was meant, but that's how I interpreted it.

[Jock Scot]

I understood Alan's comment differently. It wasn't really pointed towards Americans (or those outwith Scotland) so much as poking at the fact that there are different schools of thought WITHIN Scotland on what is "correct / acceptable". We often see Jock and a few other "seasoned" gentlemen who wear a kilt the same way (give or take) that they were taught growing up 50 - 150 years ago (he types with tongue firmly planted in cheek). That is very traditional, completely acceptable and often very well done and universally accepted as "good taste". I fully admit to having learned a thing or three from them and borrow from their style on occasion.

On the other hand, just as there are Americans (and others) who, according to some traditionalists, butcher Scottish highland dress, there are some Scots who do the same and little focus seems to be put on that fact. We tend to paint with a broad brush of "Non Scottish native" when it comes to less than traditional way of wearing highland dress.

Alan, please accept my apology if that's not what was meant, but that's how I interpreted it.

You raise some very good points there Rocky. There are indeed many Scots that dress in the kilt outside the traditional way of doing things. Take the Tartan Army as a prime example, no one can deny that the majority within that group are Scots, nevertheless they almost to a man break nearly every traditional kilt wearing convention in the book! They have a great time doing what they do and who can criticise that? I do note though that some members of the TA that I personally know can and do smarten up very well if the occasion is required!

My "hobby horse" is the Scottish kilt hire business in general, who obviously fulfil a need in Scotland as they are so successful----well at least if one considers the numbers of them about-------but some of their combinations of kilt attire do leave a lot to be desired, as far as traditional kilt attire is concerned. However their customers appear to be happy with that. From a conversation I had with a hire company owner that is because the customers in general know no different.

Now those outwith Scotland can easily have another factor added to their kilt attire equation that the Scots do not have------the extremes of climate. Extremes of heat and cold must and do need to be taken into consideration and from the kilt pictures I have seen on this website, many do extremely well in at least making a nod to traditional kilt conventions whilst they shiver or perspire!

Not only that, those from all around the world(including the UK) not exposed to the self imposed and baffling British minefield of "what is and what is not done" with one's attire decisions does add to the difficulty in decision making.

Thank you, by the way, for your kind words.

[RockyR]

Thank you, by the way, for your kind words.

Not a problem at all, Jock. Thank you for looking objectively at a subject that could, to a thinner skinned individual, have been potentially perceived as an attack from a boorish American on Scots. My post certainly wasn't intended that way and I'm happy to see it came across clearly to you.

It is certainly a minefield of factors that influence dress and I'm happy that if we are to have a discussion, we can at least agree to the breadth of the factors influencing the decisions of individuals.

[Jock Scot]

Thinking on Rocky and I did try to get an answer to this in a recent thread of mine that sadly went down a route that I did not intend, but perhaps it is relevant here as well.

I suspect we have all got our attire wrong to a particular event, I have, it happens and we live with it and we learn from it. Civilian dress regardless of what style of clothing we wear does not come with a set of rigid dress regulations like the military have and unless one has first hand experience one is left with seeking advice from others. In the past one sought out family and friends for that advice and more often than not one ended up dressed in attire to fit the occasion. These days with much more loose dress conventions that source of GOOD well informed advice is more difficult to obtain from that route and websites such as this and the internet in general comes into play.

That is great for many events and works wonderfully, but it has its dangers. How many times on this website has the question been asked; " I have been invited to a formal wedding and I want to wear my kilt and tweed day jacket to the event, will that do?" and what happens? Pages of conflicting international advice pours forth and clouds the issue even more. Much of this advice is backed up with "concrete evidence" in the form of internet pictures which often(usually) unhelpfully clouds the issue even more and in consequence, this well meant but totally misguided advice is perpetuated.

These threads often get heated, particularly when the discussion gets diverted by the unfortunate, unhelpful and defensive international kilt justification angle gets brought into the equation, as it often does.

Now what I often see as the end result of these discussions is that many kilt wearers, from outwith Scotland-------and within Scotland if clad in hire clothes-------end up, in my admittedly traditional Scots eyes, inappropriately attired for a particular event. The problem of course, is the person who is wearing the said outfit is not a traditional Scot and makes his decisions with his Australian/Peruvian/Canadian/wherever eyes and experience and the result is different and quite often looks overdressed to a traditional Scot and thats fine as far as it goes, but----------------.

From now on, when answering these sorts of questions in "advice threads", I will endeavour to reply at the start of my advice; " do you want advice from a traditional Scots kilt wearer?" and if the reply is in the negative as it could easily be, I will then gracefully bow out of the conversation. That is not me being mean minded, or some such, it is an attempt in not clouding the issue, nothing more.

[OC Richard]

I understood Alan's comment differently. It wasn't really pointed towards Americans (or those outwith Scotland)

I can't see how "trying to look like you're from Scotland" could be referencing anybody other than those outwith Scotland.

Obviously Scots look like Scots no matter how they look... any and every Scot is part of the reality that defines what Scots looks like. As Yoda says "there is no try".

[Pegasys]

We have camped next to the Gordon Clan the last 2 years at the Chicago Scots Fest and got to know them so I know they kit appropriately For myself I chose to take the advice of my kilt maker and do the matching flashes . I am not a long tie kinda guy so the question never came up , but I do agree with the sentiment that a matching tie would take the lookers Aye off the kilt . I choose to wear cream colored kilt hose so it contrasts the blue-green in my family tartan and in my thoughts forces the Aye of the beholder to look up ? at the kilt

Hello my fellow Kilt Brethren -
I just ordered my first 13 oz weathered Gordon kilt from USA Kilts out of Pennsylvania (advertised on this board heard great things about them). I understand that the majority of this question is a matter of personal taste; however I wanted to seek out the communities opinion.
Get just matching tartan flashes?
Get matching tartan necktie?
Get both matching tartan flashes and necktie?
Get none of the above becuase it is poor form?
Please feel free to give me your opinion, I am thick skinned. LOL