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  1. #41
    Join Date
    25th September 04
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    Victoria, BC, Canada 1123.6536.5321
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    I never said that my friend was trying to recreate a history book correct look.

    I said that he was living with what he has available and with what works.
    They tried lighter weight fabrics and they were fine for show but when it came down to living, working, and keeping dry and warm they found the heavier weight and slightly fuzzy nap of the fabric to work the best.

    To this group, who are all Anthropology and Archeology Professors, it is what works that is important. So they all know the books. Many of them can quote them from memory.

    They use what the people of period would have had, and what they could have traded for. Saffron, for example, to dye their Leine was available and traded to the islands from southern Spain, but is literally worth its weight in Gold.
    The Penannular Brooch is an heirloom. It's an actual one that has been passed down in the family.

    Another example is their weaving of fabrics.
    When weaving they don't always weave Tartan. Some times they weave Madras Plaids, sometimes stripes, sometimes Tweed. It depends on what and who they are weaving for and the mood of the weaver at the time.
    Sometimes they weave lighter weight fabrics for summer and sometimes heavier weight ones for winter.

    So these people, eventhough they know what is written in the books, and follow them as much as possible, find that not everything is in the book. Much of what is in the book is sometimes a strangers interpretation of what they saw, and sometimes was written long after the fact and sometimes was second or third hand verbal when it was finally written down.

    So if it's cold and wet and snowy they grab what's warm and hang the description in the book. The idea is to find out what it takes to stay alive.
    Steve Ashton
    www.freedomkilts.com
    Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
    I wear the kilt because:
    Swish + Swagger = Swoon.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    8th June 04
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    Oh. I thought they were trying to get a handle on what was used historically, not what works better now. Stainless steel works better, too, but they didn't have it 300 years ago.

    The fact remains that existing/surviving plaids from the period are thin, tightly woven, and fine-yarned, which match the period descriptions, as well. Sure, a nice thick modern blanket will keep you nice and toasty, but it doesn't replicate what was historically utilized in terms of tartan plaids worn belted. If the latter isn't the desired experience, then no problem. If not, then why not add water-proof, rip-stop nylon to the mix?

    Here's another period mention of the "fineness" of men's plaids:
    http://medievalscotland.org/clothing...tinwimen.shtml
    Brian

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  3. #43
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    It's also worth mentioning that Stewart of Garth describes highlanders as wearing their plaids "doubled" or folded in half to double the thickness and increase warmth. Look closely and you can see that the plaid in this period image is so doubled:

    Brian

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  4. #44
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    18th August 09
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    There's a supposed account in 'The Clans, Septs and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands 1934' that describes how a Highland Chief around the time of the '45 would have put on a Belted Plaid - however it's using a servant and keepers for the belt. Perhaps the gentry used loops for the belt, while common clansmen wouldn't - I doubt the gentry would be found sleeping in fields in the their plaids (or perhaps their dress plaids as they might do so on campaign if better accommodation wasn't available or stealth was needed) so this might be plausible.

    It's located here, near the bottom of the page:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=xHA...age&q=&f=false

    The same book has some interesting accounts of wear, though the author draws some very suspect conclusions throughout.

    I recently cut a 4.5yd x 60" swath from a bolt of tartan that I have, for a Belted Plaid and have done some experimenting. I've tried both laying down and standing up methods, and I personally prefer the standing method as I find it much much faster. Gathering the pleats in one hand, draping, belting and arranging can all be done in just a few minutes with little practice, while laying the plaid out takes space and considerable time to pull into pleats though it does produce nicer pleats.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    24th September 09
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    NE Scotland
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    Maist Clansmen nivir took thair philamohr aff, thay wore it aw thi time eftir aw ti onli haid thi wan kilt

  6. #46
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    Another great thread! Brian, I did not realize just how much a scholar of the period you are. Totally fascinating. Thanks for the lesson. More please. (I really must get to Binghamton so we can chat face to face.)
    Andy in Ithaca, NY
    Exile from Northumberland

  7. #47
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    We also need to keep in mind that - given the widths of looms - the plaid consisted of two pieces of material sewn together. It would have been (as it now is) very easy to stitch the two together such that the stitching itself accomodated a belt or drawstring of sorts that when tightened would automatically create nice even folds all around, easily flattened by another belt into box pleats. I haven't tried this on a full scale, but have experimented with a small pieces of cloth and it works perfectly.
    Garrett

    "Then help me for to kilt my clais..." Schir David Lindsay, Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaitis

  8. #48
    nunhoptre is offline membership revoked for spam
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    Thanks

    They are really very cool, very wonderful
    Great work .. really informative .. and thanks a lot for sharing ..
    Glad it works as expected for you
    looking good

  9. #49
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    15th May 05
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    Inspired by this I tried belting on an Army blanket standing up and it is fast and it works this does not however produce a pleated look. The modern heavy wool blankets are way too heavy to wear more than a standard length blanket say 60 inch by 60 inch which would be 4 yards. The 9 yard (135X60) kilt would have to be a very light material comparatively. We may have two weights of wool summer and winter, further we might have two weights of wool, thin high quality pretty stuff for show worn by the nobles and thick heavy rough wool in muted colors worn by those who actually lived and worked out doors.

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