Ponderings of an ancient Scot.

[Ancienne Alliance]

Very well, I am French. Traditionally, The Culloden Tartan is associated to the French for they were present in this battle as allies. So is Black Stuart for the same reason.

I do have a Culloden Tartan kilt and my dear wife and daughters wear the Black Stuart. Fine !
Having Breton and Norman blood (lots of it!) I could wear one of these tartans.

So I could leave it to my Scottish neighbours to wear the clan tartan to which I am linked , not wear them any more and concentrate on the “French” ones.

But I will never do that . Never.

Why ?

Because I wear my clan tartan partly as a therapy to solve the problems I have with my dad, and similar other personal reasons I will not disclose in public. My family story (and heritage) carries a lot of sorrow.

Stopping this healing process by not wearing my family tartan would simply put an end to my kilt wearing all together, amongst other things.

Now I wouldn't want to deprive you of all these lovely kilted photos some of you seem to appreciate...


Best,

Robert

[MartinGrenoble]

Although the word "heritage" crops up so often on this forum, I have some doubts about the validity of the associated arguments. Perhaps that is my sheer ignorance -- I cannot remember hearing the word in my early life. In any case, for me one's character/personality is a product of the culture/education one was brought up in, and is not dependent on genes ("blood", as many of you have been saying). My upbringing was in southern England, and my personal development in French-speaking countries. Whatever genes I may have, determined the colour of my hair and the size of my feet, not the food I eat, the languages I speak, the books I read, or the clothes I wear.

Someone has already pointed out that kilts and tartans are two different things, and it is the latter that are associated today with particular Scottish clans (or regions, associations, regiments ...) not kilts. It is easy enough to buy and wear a masculine tie to show off one's connections and affiliations. One need not fork out hundreds of euros and acquire several metres of heavy, pleated worsted wool (not to mentions sporrans etc) -- and run the risk of being thought an oddity! Unless, of course, one wants to be comfortable/different/ostentatious ...
Many men (those few that wear anything round their necks) have tartan ties, but as far as I know there are no more tie forums than there are trouser forums.

I am quite convinced that the desire to be unbifurcated and comfortable comes before the expression of a desire to be Scottish. But because skirt-wearing is a sign of an unbalanced mind for 99,9% of the western population, we have to look for some excuse to be skirted. We could evoke medical or anatomical needs, but it is far easier to refer to Celtic forebears.

I would not dispute that some people are genuinely interested in discovering their family history, but I do wonder how many really became interested in skirted garments only after discovering some Celtic connexion. Did they not look for their connexion because they found kilts attractive?

To return to the original topic:
Uniforms are for the military, imposed from above. Although many young people like to look alike (in black or in jeans & t-shirt), why should any adult want to restrict himself to one colour? Would you always buy and wear the same shirt or pullover? I for one have no wish whatsoe"ver to be in uniform and part of the herd.

My first kilt was a Gordon (chosen by and for the family -- though without any reference to "heritage"!). When it needed replacing, I had a hankering for change and went for a Ross hunting, for one reason only -- it is a beautiful pattern.

Martin

[OC Richard]

"Is it now time for the non Scots to START to wear their own (non Scots) tartans?"I think, probably, its already started. There are countless tartans that represent State, military unit,Country, region and so on.
...as time distances Scots connections, then are we going to see more and more tartans that are more appropriate to the future kilt wearers' connections?

As people have pointed out, this process is already in full swing (so to speak) here in the USA.

I'm a newbie on this forum and one of the first things I did was to look back over a large number of old posts and threads, especially in the "show us your kilt pics" section and "your best kilt pic" section. I was struck by how large a percentage of the tartans being worn are recent inventions, both non-Scottish tartans such as American Heritage etc and new Scottish non-clan tartans such as Isle of Skye etc.

In the "old days" tartan choices were few and individuals either tried to find a tartan that linked somehow to their familiy or just picked one of the old clan tartans because they liked it. All individuals and Pipe Bands wore old clan and regimental tartans because they were the only tartans available.

But now, how different it is here! A local Pipe Band started up and chose the California tartan. Our band, back in the 1980's, went with British Columbia simply because we loved the colours (remember when teal and fuschia were the hot colours?) A friend moved to Kentucky and the pipe band he joined wears the Kentucky tartan. Many pipe bands the world over are going with self-designed tartans (Field Marshall Montgomery for one) or new non-clan tartans (Spirit Of Scotland Pipe Band went with...Isle of Skye...not Spirit of Scotland... go figure.)

[MacBean]

I really hope that the kilt wearers of the future, with distant, or non Scots connections, will move on to new tartans and leave the clan tartans to the Scots.

I see some sense in this. The Scottish traditions have been cheapened by poor immitation and that is a shame. It may also be a shame that Scots somewhat abandoned their old ways and language (Gaelic or Scots) in the interest of fitting in better with the English (who do seem to value conformity).

I am, I suppose, American with a Scottish surname and lineage to Inverness shire, and a clan chief who resides, not in Scotland, but in Tuscon, Arizona. So Jock, do you wear a clan tartan corresponding to your surname? If you do, then I do the same. The chief difference is that you reside in Scotland and I do not. Another difference is that for every Scottish ancestor, I have 20 or so who were from other lands, yet the surname stands. If Clan MacBean were restricted to those living in Scotland, then it would cease to exist; there just aren't enough left in Scotland to make it work.

Having argued both sides now, I would love to avoid cheapening the traditions, but also wish to uphold the story of Clan MacBean and Clan Chattan in general. Perhaps we need a new version of tartan - modern, ancient, weathered, hunting, and EXPATRIATE?

[MacBean]

I have often thought it odd that Scotland, with all its incentives to increase population, has never opened its doors to those of Scottish ancestry who might like to return.

[Jock Scot]

I have often thought it odd that Scotland, with all its incentives to increase population, has never opened its doors to those of Scottish ancestry who might like to return.

As I have never had to face that problem,I stand to be corrected here, but as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping you from returning here, apart from the "normal hoops and jumps" that any visitor wishing to take up residence here has to endure. Perhaps I am being naive?

[Fougasse]

I have often thought it odd that Scotland, with all its incentives to increase population, has never opened its doors to those of Scottish ancestry who might like to return.

It already does, if you're a Kiwi and play rugby!

[davidlpope]

I think the necessary tension( at least in my mind) when confronting the idea of creating new non-Scottish tartans is the fact that the kilt is the national/ethnic/cultural attire of Scots and those of Scots-descent. I personally don't understand the appeal of tartans that are aimed at non-Scottish ethnicities (German, Dutch, etc.) that have distinct national/ethnic/cultural traditions in their own right.

I guess that in my mind I give the US a "pass" on this factor, since I don't think that we're old enough, or homogenous enough, to have a uniform, distinct national/ethnic/cultural tradition of our own yet. As such, most kiltwearers I know came to kilts by way of an interest in their Scottish ancestry. In most settings where I see the kilt being worn, it's in the context of a clan association gathering. Given that, I'm don't think that the motivation of most Americans for wearing a clan tartan is any different than that of Scots.


Cordially,

David

[Scotus]

I think the necessary tension( at least in my mind) when confronting the idea of creating new non-Scottish tartans is fact that the kilt is the national/ethnic/cultural attire of Scots and those of Scots-descent. I personally don't understand the appeal of tartans that are aimed at non-Scottish ethnicities (German, Dutch, etc.) that have distinct national/ethnic/cultural traditions in their own right.

I guess that in my mind I give the US a "pass" on this factor, since I don't think that we're old enough, or homogenous enough, to have a uniform, distinct national/ethnic/cultural tradition of our own yet. As such, most kiltwearers I know came to kilts by way of an interest in their Scottish ancestry. In most settings where I see the kilt being worn, it's in the context of a clan association gathering. Given that, I'm don't think that the motivation of most Americans for wearing a clan tartan is any different than that of Scots.

David:

Very, very well said! Your first paragraph is exactly how I feel about it!

America (and Canada and a few other places) are somewhat different because of the large population of Scottish descendants. Anyway, what you've said here is what I was trying to say about my own non-interest in non-Scottish tartans.

Scotus

[Deil the Yin]

I have often thought it odd that Scotland, with all its incentives to increase population, has never opened its doors to those of Scottish ancestry who might like to return.

There is a current push from the Scottish government to attract "new blood" to Scotland, and while they make it sound as if they really want you to become part of the nation, it comes with a pretty steep price tag. For a family of three about US$10,000 to get all the proper paperwork done, never mind the moving cost etc...