outift advice

[piperdbh]

Good lord! Do mean to say that they don't do that in the USA?

In my limited experience, there are fewer "formal" events here, or at least in my little corner of the continent, than in Europe. I could probably count on one hand the number of men I know who own their own tuxedo, and, apart from high school proms and weddings, black tie is rarely (if ever) seen. The parties/events I've attended usually are not announced through written invitations, so there is no dress code. We're very casual about a great many things, which, in my opinion, is not always for the better.

[artificer]

Good lord! Do mean to say that they don't do that in the USA?

Barring the old "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" sign, there are few places that will turn away the under-dressed here.

Gods know I love being casual, but there's a time and a place. I despise going out to a very nice meal and seeing a bunch of t-shirts, jeans, and sports shoes.

Of course, America IS the place that invented the 'sweat pants' that look like jeans and the tuxedo t-shirt

[Zardoz]

Good lord! Do mean to say that they don't do that in the USA?

Sadly, not as much as they should!

I go to one formal ball every year that is "black tie required", they actually tell you in the invite that you will be turned away if not in formal wear. (they include a discount coupon to a local tux rental place with the invitations) I like seeing everyone dressed up, it really gives the party a sense of occasion.

I go to some others that don't list a dress code, but use "formal" and "black tie event" in the body of the invitation, so one 'assumes' it is black-tie, but if folks ask the organizers about it, they tell them "black tie optional", which just means dark suit, or wear whatever! I asked one of the hosts about this once, she was concerned that "people might not come" if it was black tie required or they were too rigid etc...

[azwildcat96]

Good lord! Do mean to say that they don't do that in the USA?

Why yes, they do do that in the USA...but in my opinion, not nearly enough!

[Tobus]

I asked one of the hosts about this once, she was concerned that "people might not come" if it was black tie required or they were too rigid etc...

That seems to be the general consensus these days. Except for the uber-rich, most Americans don't appreciate dressing up. You can hardly get the common man to wear a suit and tie for church or weddings any more. So organizers of evening events typically won't call for formal wear, or won't enforce it, lest they be accused of being snooty and discriminatory. And ye gads! Being accused of snootiness and discrimination will mean bad press, demonstrations, and loss of business! Possibly even lawsuits!

I don't know how or why America got to this point, but it's a bit of a shame.

Do common people in the UK (i.e. the middle class) have black-tie events on a regular basis?

[Jock Scot]

Actually I only made that comment with my tongue placed very firmly in my cheek. But your replies are very interesting. I think this whole thread has been interesting and does clearly show why it is so difficult to get some Americans to understand "dress codes" whilst the Europeans are far more accepting and understanding about such matters. It is I suppose a cultural thing and is a consequence of the "New World" trying to adopt "Old World" attire and all the stuff(requirements) that goes with it and obviously it does not rest easily on some peoples minds.

[Jock Scot]

Tobus.

Good lord Tobus talking about the "common man" and "Middle Classes" you will cause absolute consternation over here if you talk in those terms!

Unless it is a private function where only the invited guests attend, there are black tie events going on daily somewhere in the UK(cities, towns, colleges, schools you name it) that any one who wishes to attend and has the money to buy a ticket can go to; appropriately attired I hasten to add. Yes indeed some tickets are very expensive, not all though.

[Mark Stephenson]

First, let me say that I spent 20 years in the USAF and retired as a Lt Col. So, I have a great appreciation for "dress codes". That said, it seems to me the basic question is, what constitutes "black tie"? According to the initial post, the invitation said "black tie". Please forgive me if I missed a subsequent post which indicated, "white tie", "national costume", or any other dress code specifications. I would ask the rabble: Isn't a PC, black tie, and tartan kilt considered "black tie"? Am I missing something?

Finally, perhaps it would help if we knew in what capacity the gentleman was attending the ball, i.e., is he officially representing a particular nation

[Tobus]

Well I didn't mean to cause a ruckus over the use of those terms. Don't know how else to say it. What I mean is, do regular folks, not only the wealthy, but just the average middle-income family types, have occasion to go to events that require this level of dress (i.e. black tie or higher)?

What I'm getting at is that, in my experience (and it's limited to where I've lived and my social status, which is solidly middle-class), most folks here simply don't ever have a need to dress up more nicely than a suit and tie. On the very rare occasion that they need a tuxedo (which is usually a wedding), they will rent one. I don't know if this is because Americans in general tend to dress down for the same types of functions that they would dress up for in the UK, or if we just typically don't have those types of functions here like they do over there.

Judging by what I've witnessed on this board over time, though, it's obvious that Americans don't understand dress codes at those higher levels, and I was just curious as to how people in the UK end up knowing so much. It must be because normal people have occasion to use those dress codes in the UK where we do not.

But if it's a sensitive subject, I'll let it go. Don't want to create a collie-shangie!

[BoldHighlander]

I think this whole thread has been interesting and does clearly show why it is so difficult to get some Americans to understand "dress codes" whilst the Europeans are far more accepting and understanding about such matters. It is I suppose a cultural thing and is a consequence of the "New World" trying to adopt "Old World" attire and all the stuff(requirements) that goes with it and obviously it does not rest easily on some peoples minds.

And yet, it wasn't always this way over on this side of the pond. I'm not sure when the change occurred....the cultural upheavals of the 1960's perhaps?