What should we have to accept when buying a custom made kilt?

[ForresterModern]

I think Scott Chalmer's attempts to overcome the errors in the first two poor quality products unfortunately overcompensated by trying to rush through a replacement handsewn in only a few days, and the quality likely suffered on number three attempt because of it. Too bad that the "extra effort" backfired on him and his company. I personally know that the company can do better, and have one handsewn and three machine sewn kilts in great quality to prove it.

I agree that the final product is not up to snuff, not as far off as the first two attempts, but still not right. There is only so much a customer can take, and a company can do, to try to make things right. Sometimes even good customer service, after bad, cannot remedy a situation, other than to shake hands and say "thanks for giving us an opportunity to try to serve you" and hope for future chances with better outcomes.

I hope den gets his kilt in his tartan and a quality build, and sometime reasonably soon (not too soon----don't want to rush the artist). Will eagerly await the pictures that include a happy smile.

j

[Leonard (MacGregor)Tinker]

I purchased my first kilt several months ago from Scotweb. It is very well made, of 16 ounce wool from Lochcarron in the modern MacGregor tartan. My daughter in law measured me as per Scotwebb's instructions and the kilt came about 2" too large. When I spoke with them by telephone I was told they don't do alterations and I should take it to a local tailor for alterations. That struck me as unacceptable for a made to measure kilt (or any made to measure garment for that matter). To be sure, the tailor here in Des Moines only charged me $45 to alter it and it now fits fine. Nevertheless it left a bad taste. I would have thought with a made to measure kilt (what Scotwebb calls bespoke) they would have altered it as necessary. I do understand there is some controversy about the meanings of the terms "off the rack", "made to measure" and "bespoke". Even when Scotweb calls my kilt bespoke I would have thought made to made to measure might have been more accurate. I should add I am very happy with the kilt as altered and that the $45 was a small percentage of the clan crest Prince Charlie package.

Regards,

Leonard (MacGregor) Tinker

[RockyR]

I purchased my first kilt several months ago from Scotweb. It is very well made, of 16 ounce wool from Lochcarron in the modern MacGregor tartan. My daughter in law measured me as per Scotwebb's instructions and the kilt came about 2" too large. When I spoke with them by telephone I was told they don't do alterations and I should take it to a local tailor for alterations. That struck me as unacceptable for a made to measure kilt (or any made to measure garment for that matter. To be sure, the tailor here in Des Moines only charged me $45 to alter it and it now fits fine. Nevertheless it left a bad taste. I would have thought with a made to measure kilt (what Scotwebb calls bespoke) they would have altered it as necessary. I do understand there is some controversy about the meanings of the terms "off the rack", "made to measure" and "bespoke". Even when Scotweb calls my kilt bespoke I would have thought made to made to measure might have been more accurate. I should add I am very happy with the kilt as altered and that the $45 was a small percentage of the clan crest Prince Charlie package.

Regards,

Leonard (MacGregor) Tinker

There's a difference between Scotweb and tartanweb... 2 completely different companies.

Scotweb is a highland wear retailer. Tartanweb makes their own kilts. Scotweb is not the company being discussed on this thread.

[Jock Scot]

This may be unpopular with some here, but I think there is a misunderstanding between bespoke, made to measure and made to measurements.It is this latter definition that causes confusion with many.I am also not sure where "custom made" fits in and I think that this also causes misunderstandings too, but it seems to my UK eyes to fit with the made to measurements criteria.

Bespoke and made to measure, in my book, demand that the kiltmaker and the client actually meet to discuss requirements of the(in this case) the kilt with the client and what the kilt maker can and cannot do. The end product is tried on by the client in the presence of the kilt maker and when AND ONLY WHEN both parties are completly satisfied does money change hands.

I am not talking of any particular case here, but a kilt ordered over the internet,telephone,fax,letter ----made to measurements----even with the best will in the world is asking for potential trouble. The fact that there are very few (it seems) kilts bought this way with faults is, in my view, down to the skill of the kilt makers who trade this way and frankly, good luck.

Now in this made to measurements world that many of us live in does require the customer to be perhaps more realistic with his purchase and it is also beholden on the kilt maker,should he/she be at fault, to put themselves out should a major mistake in CONSTRUCTION, or, FIT be made. From what I have seen over the last few years on this website this has, on the whole, been nearly always recognised by the kiltmakers trading in this made to measurements way.In all honesty I think some customers are not as understanding as they might be should perfection not occur.However the customer, at the very least, has every right to expect to have a kilt that looks right from a distance.

[denmcdough]

Time for another chime. Many who have posted on this thread have totally missed the point! This is NOT about bad measurements. It's about bad construction....the mathematics of the pleats and the construction are all off.

This kilt is much better than the first two attempts, but the third one was such a disappointment. I was so excited that the problem was, finally, going to be fixed.

The problem with the kilt is just not that the pleats hang low in the middle, the sett is not aligned, and the first pleat on the left flairs way out. Other than that, the kilt really did fit like a glove. I was very comfortable in it.

The kilt is on its way back to TW..should be there Tuesday. And, I will receive a refund, plus shipping, that Scott agreed to.

Jeff, I do have a kilt maker already picked out, and I WILL get that Robertson after all. I will post pics, too.

This ordeal, GG, has been a long time, but I'm confident that things will all work out in the end.

[CDNSushi]

[COLOR="Navy"]Time for another chime. Many who have posted on this thread have totally missed the point! This is NOT about bad measurements. It's about bad construction....the mathematics of the pleats and the construction are all off.

Not necessarily. For instance, I think that both Jock Scot and I have been trying to express that IF it were feasible/practical to be physically present during the construction phase, it might be far easier and quicker to spot such shortcomings in construction and mathematical errors in the pleats that you speak of, rather than having to wait for the entire garment to be completed, shipped, evaluated, then returned in the event of problems. That is the chance we take when we order clothes over the Internet (something that traditionally, most of us wouldn't have ever dreamed of buying some years ago, without having tried them on first).

Again, I'm not saying that we should settle for inferior products here, but we are (in my opinion) dealing with an inherently flawed process. With all due respect to GG, I fully sympathize with his concerns and asking the question "1) How likely is it that you should deliver me a kilt looking like that?" But that is, quite simply an unreasonable question to have answered. And if I were a kiltmaker being asked that question, I would have to answer that: if someone had concerns about the quality and construction of their kilt, they'd be more than welcome to come in person and inspect the work-in-progress and get a guided tour of our facilities. However barring that, they would simply have to take it on our good word that we were doing our best to construct the kilt in a quality, proper manner.

What it comes down to is this. In any industry, there will always be an element of trust involved... You have to trust that things are normally done up-to-spec. As I sit here in my office at work even, I have to have SOME trust in that the building was built up to code, and that I WON'T have iron i-beams falling out of the ceiling and onto my head... I have to trust that the chair I'm sitting in, (even though it was assembled on an assembly line by a minimum-wage paid worker) was constructed properly, and won't break under me. We have to make hundreds of such assumptions in our everyday lives, every single day -- but we choose not to dwell on them or bring them into question.

However, if you MUST bring it into question, and if you cannot naturally ASSUME that a company will do something right, then you should really be looking for a new company to do business with. Find a company that you CAN extend such trust to. I don't mean to sound harsh or unsympathetic, but it really IS important to give the benefit of the doubt. GG himself readily admitted that he has a wide range of kilts, from cheap Pakistani ones to nice woolen ones, and that none of them suffer from the problems he illustrated in the photo. That tells me something -- and it should tell Greg something too... That it is not the usual state of affairs for ANY company, and that the photo presents an anomaly. If it were not so, Tartanweb, who have been around since 1989 (according to their website), would have long gone out of business. Again, not trying to defend Tartanweb necessarily, but we shouldn't let the unfortunate experience of one individual undo over 20 years' worth of kiltmaking...

[Downunder Kilt]

I think, anyone correct me if I am wrong, that we all can agree that the interior of the pleats should not fall below the exterior level. If they do, then they have been pressed wrong or the kilt has been made incorrectly. I think in this case the kilt has been made incorrectly (going by the evidence produced.)

How then did it get past quality control? One only has to hold the kilt up, keep the waistline level and see that the outside and inside are not aligned or any other number of faults that can occur. I have had a fault with with a kilt purchased online and would have/should have been picked up by simple quality control.

Yes mistakes are made in processes, but that is what quality control is about. It's not like kilts are being processed like a factory making chocolates or jubes where hundreds go through a second. Places like Tartanweb, Scotweb, Highland Clans may send out perhaps 20 kilts a day maximum. To spend 5 minutes on each kilt checking aligments, seams, the hang etc means 100 minutes work but would ensure that inferior mechandise does not get dispatched.
(ends up saving the business money, postage costs etc, and bad publicity)

That is all I have to say about it

[artificer]

. To spend 5 minutes on each kilt checking aligments, seams, the hang etc means 100 minutes work but would ensure that inferior mechandise does not get dispatched.
(ends up saving the business money, postage costs etc, and bad publicity)

That is all I have to say about it

Entire industries could live (but mostly die) by this rule.
Some of the best monies you could spend are in quality control and customer service.

ith:

[GG]

I think, anyone correct me if I am wrong, that we all can agree that the interior of the pleats should not fall below the exterior level. If they do, then they have been pressed wrong or the kilt has been made incorrectly. I think in this case the kilt has been made incorrectly (going by the evidence produced.)

YES, and this is the only thing I’m concerned about here. Because to me, it is important that a kilt basically is not made incorrectly.

I don’t talk correct fit at waist and hips, correct length and, certainly not time consuming and cost generating factors like 100% precision to pleating etc. (That the Tartanwear kilt seems also to have deficits regarding pleating is not my point here).

No, it is all about whether I and other customers can expect a kilt to be basically correctly made, with no uneven hanging pleats at the rear.

I also think no matter the price, because no serious kilt maker or vendor should ever make or sell a kilt not meeting a fundamental demand like this.

Please, correct me if I’m wrong.

I own more than 20 kilts (most non-Scottish, it is) and four of them are below 50 Dollars Pakistani made PV Acrylic 5 and 8 yard kilts. It may be sheer luck, but none of these do look like this pictured 3rd attempt TW kilt, den received.

How then did it get past quality control? One only has to hold the kilt up, keep the waistline level and see that the outside and inside are not aligned or any other number of faults that can occur…
Yes mistakes are made in processes, but that is what quality control is about.

Exactly. How did a kilt for the third time pass quality control, even after the manager of the company had personally involved himself in the procedure, see original thread?
Better than attempt 1 and 2 it is, but still far from basically being satisfactory – to my humble opinion.

If we kilt buyers accept such things we'll se a lot of kilts with down hanging uneven pleats.
We get what we pay for, it is said and it might have some truth in it.
I should say, we rather won't get more for our money than we demand.

[GG]

Some of the best monies you could spend are in quality control and customer service.ith:

Do you remember or have you ever seen the advertising campaign effectively establishing Volkswagen on the US car market?

The basic strategy was high quality. One of the proofs was this 1960 quality control ad:

Lemon.



The body copy tells it all, I think.

This Volkswagen missed the boat.

The chrome strip on the glove compartment is blemished and must be replaced. Chances are you wouldn't have noticed it; Inspector Kurt Kroner did.

There are 3,389 men of our Wolfsburg factory with only one job; to inspect Volkswagens at each stage of production. (3,000 Volkswagens are produced daily; there are more inspectors than cars.)

Every shock absorber is tested (spot checking won't do), every windshield is scanned. VWs have been rejected for surface scratches barely visible to the eye.

Final inspection is really something! VW inspectors run each car off the line onto the Funktionsprüfstand (car test stand), tote up 189 check points, gun ahead to the automatic brake stand and say "no" to one VW out of fifty.

This preoccupation with detail means the VW lasts longer and requires less maintenance, by and large, than other cars. (It also means a used VW depreciates less than any other car.)

We pluck the lemons; you get the plums.

Might still be relevant over 50 years later.