tie with a prince charlie?

[triolamj]

Skip the gray shirt and go for a white one with either a button-down or short-eared collar. Substitute a metallic-colored long narrow tie for the traditional black bow tie. Wear a vest to match the color of your tie or the color of your PC. If you've got pocket watch with a silver fob, dandify yourself with it.

[rondo]

Why would anyone want to wear a necktie with a coatee? Why? What point are you trying to get across? What is it about the normal dress conventions that upset you enough that you want to chuck them and wear something that just is inappropriate?

I am sure I'll get called all sorts of things for this post, for my bluntness and mean-spiritedness...but I really do want to know about this. One wears a bow tie to black tie events in the evening. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Because it is our outfit and we want to. Maybe it isn't black tie and all we have is the PC and we'd like to dress it down some.

Rondo

[rondo]

While it may not be 'traditional', I thought it worked just fine, wearing a tie with a mess jacket. Aesthetically, it works for me because the kilt is worn higher than trousers, and so the tie is tied shorter. This is just my personal opinion, of course, but even with the short mess jacket (or a PC for that matter), a regular tie can work, sans waistcoat, if it's tied so that it stops at the buckle.

I agree...looks fine for a formal non-black tie event.

Rondo

[rondo]

I might even go for a grey turtleneck with the dark kilt and the PC...ducking now to keep from being pelted by the kilt police...lol

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The issue here seems to be that the OP only has a Prince Charlie jacket, and is wondering how he can make it work for a non black-tie event.

In an ideal world, he'd be wearing some style of Argyle jacket. But he's already said that he cannot spring for a new jacket. So that's out of the question.

So, assuming he wants to wear the kilt regardless, it seems to me the two options are:
1) buck convention and wear the Prince Charlie with a neck tie. I have multiple problems with this, not the least of which is the fact that I simply don't think a PC and a neck tie look good together. Another is that you are mixing levels of formality. Another is that the PC is a black tie jacket, and it has already been stated that this is not a black tie event. "Black tie" means more than simply wearing a black bow tie. Since the OP does not want to wear a bow tie because it's not a black tie function, then I would say equally he should not wear the PC, for the same reason.

That brings us to option 2) wear a dress shirt and neck tie with either a waistcoat or sweater. Either would qualify as "smart" dress in my opinion. Why not?

As an aside, this sort of situation is why I dissuade a lot of people from buying a Prince Charlie jacket. A lot of new kilt wearers, when they get around to buying a jacket, seem to go immediately for the PC. The first question I always ask them is how many black tie functions they attend each year. They usually say "none" or "hardly any." After I explain to them that the Prince Charlie is for black tie, I usually have no problem convincing them to go for an Argyle jacket instead.

[CMcG]

<snip>
That brings us to option 2) wear a dress shirt and neck tie with either a waistcoat or sweater. Either would qualify as "smart" dress in my opinion. Why not?

This is a good option for someone with only a PC jacket who is attending a smart (not black tie) evening event. My only caveat is that the low cut PC waistcoat still wouldn't work with a long tie, so it would need to be a higher cut style. The "why not?" is that one might be under-dressed if the other guests are wearing snazzier outfits.

I will reiterate what I originally wrote and what JSFMACLJR has so forcefully stated: traditionally, a PC is worn with a black bowtie. Unfortunately, that has already been vetoed by the host...

I think the PC/ruche tie/high waistcoat look is au courant and no quite as formal as the traditional look, especially if one is going monochrome. My caveat here is to knot the tie oneself, so that it doesn't look too scrunchy: http://www.thecravatcompany.co.uk/howtotie.htm

I'd like to clarify that by posting the pics of Gerard Butler I wasn't advocating that look. Just showing Tim P that some people do things in a non-traditional way. But Ryan Ross said he would follow movie star fashion if there were enough knees, so here are pics of Sir Sean Connery wearing a PC with either a jabot or a long tartan tie... and showing his knees

[Tobus]

No need to patronise me, Tobus. My opinions are just as welcome-- or perhaps valid-- outside of the traditional forum.

I'm not sure what would have been considered patronizing about my response, but OK. You're right that all viewpoints are relevant and acceptable. I was just pointing out that since we're not confined to strict tradition in this context, we needn't be so narrow in the approach. The question was not asked in reference to strict tradition, that I'm aware of.

We keep hearing people talking about mixing levels of formality. But that is pretty much the core issue here. The host has refused to pick a traditional level of formality, so the solution doesn't need to be pigeon-holed into one. In fact, it really sounds like the host is asking people to mix it up a bit and be creative without having to adhere to strict rules. That being the case, mixing levels of formality and bending tradition is perfectly acceptable for this occasion, unless the OP is just unwilling to do it. Our so it seems to me...

[Tim P]

the Sean Connery pictures, along with some trials last night have made my mind up for me...I could not wear a tie with a PC.
In the fullness of time a charcoal Argyll will make its way into my wardrobe, this should be complimentary to the 4 kilts I currently own. Any shirt and tie combo can then compliment the kilt I choose.

For now, the choice I now face is to attend with a bow tie or to simply wear a traditional 2 piece suit.

[rondo]

the Sean Connery pictures, along with some trials last night have made my mind up for me...I could not wear a tie with a PC.
In the fullness of time a charcoal Argyll will make its way into my wardrobe, this should be complimentary to the 4 kilts I currently own. Any shirt and tie combo can then compliment the kilt I choose.

For now, the choice I now face is to attend with a bow tie or to simply wear a traditional 2 piece suit.

That is cool Tim P...your friends event and your call certainly....but I think I'm going to get a PC now to wear with a grey turtle neck just to yank the chain of the traddies....lol...have fun at the gathering.

Rondo

[OC Richard]

For a mates 50th this weekend however I want to go for something quite contemporary. Formal smart but not black tie is the spec.

I've been at many parties where Hollywood types are present, and these people tend to not wear neckties no matter what the level of formality... a plain black crewneck T-shirt worn with sports coat or suit coat is fairly standard.
I can imagine someone wearing, to one of these events, a Prince Charlie with such a shirt. It takes the Prince Charlie and makes it look contemporary and chic. (No waistcoat... that would take your "look" in a different direction.)

Aside from that, I've seen ordinary dress shirts and long neckties worn quite often with Prince Charlies and it looks just fine. For a contemporary look I might go all black, or have a black shirt with contrasting necktie. Actually, Prince Charlies with long neckties was a very popular "look" for pipe bands in the 1970s and early 1980s. Waistcoats were usually not worn.



I don't care for this look, wing collar and waistcoat and ruche tie



I've even seen Prince Charlies worn with blue jeans... some people seem to be able to pull off any "look".