Wool vs Polyviscose...am I being a snob?

[tundramanq]

***
"So if you are thinking about making a kilt, think also the finished kilt. After a week or a month of sewing you should be proud of your work. You will want to strap your kilt on and go out to show it off. You may want to post pics here and bask in the accolades of your fellow members.
Ask yourself --- What would you be proud to wear when you get it done? "

That's a piece of snobbery I'll gladly join in on!

[The Wizard of BC]

Snobbery? Well, yes, I guess you could call it that.

Let me tell you a little story.

I now make kilts. I've done a lot of different things in my life, but when a noob walks into my shop you can see the excitement. They have usually dreamed about wearing a kilt for a long time. It is not unusual for one of my customers to have saved and scrimped for months or even years before coming to see me. They want so bad to show off and make a connection to their heritage or to their family.

Sometimes they know what Tartan they want and sometimes they come to me wide eyed and naive. They get to feel and see their Tartan, sometimes for the first time in their life. They then get my best effort at customer service. We take measurements and we talk about how to wear their kilt.
Sometimes they also look at sporrans and jackets. Sometimes they ask about "The Question".

The excitement is usually tempered when I have to tell them about the wait time. There is fabric to be shipped from Scotland and their order must work its way up my order board.

But when I call them and tell them that their kilt is ready and that they can come in and try it on, all the excitement is back. Their dream is a reality and they have THEIR kilt.

I have to tell you that watching that wide-eyed innocent noob strap on their kilt for the first time is what makes my job one of the best in the world. They look in the mirror, they turn around to see the hang of the pleats. They twirl so they can watch the pleats swish.

And usually they have come with their girlfriend or spouse. And that makes it all the better because to see the look in your lady's eye makes any man stand proud and tall.


I would no more make a customers' kilt out of a cheap fabric than I would try to sell them a kilt that hangs wrong or does not swish just right.

Now, I understand that not everyone can afford a custom made kilt. I couldn't. Heck, I still can't. So I decided to learn how to do it myself. I encourage everyone to give making a kilt a try.

But you really owe it to yourself to make the best kilt you are capable of making. You deserve the right to show it off and you deserve the bragging rights of "I made it myself" when you get the comments of praise.

The biggest component of the cost of a custom made kilt is the labor. The fabric usually comes out to about 1/4 the total cost. And the difference in cost between good fabric and cheap stuff is actually very small. It does not matter if you want a P/V kilt or a wool kilt. The percent of the total cost of the kilt is about the same.

So please, don't skimp on your fabric. The end result will be so much better, and worth the trouble, that the small extra expense, those months of dropping all your change in a jar will evaporate in an instant. The first time you get that "Nice Kilt" from a passerby or get that glance from the girl you just passed on the sidewalk will make it all worthwhile.

[tundramanq]

I'll second that Steve, there is nothing like the pride of wearing/owning something that is the best. Then add the "I made it myself" is double frosting on the cake. I have designed and built quite a few things in my life to do a job better for others and myself and the satisfaction I get is huge. Pride of invention and craftsmanship is the greatest form of snobbery.
The fabric of a kilt is the foundation to a great kilt. My MM PV USAK casuals with fewer pleats hangs well and waggles great. Better than some of the 6-8 yd wool kilts I have.

Fit of a kilt is huge and unique to your body. Off the shelf kilts will fit the "normal/average" someone perfectly.
But I haven't met this someone and I don't think they exist. As an example, about everyone has one leg shorter than the other and without the fitting and adjustments a kilt will hang a tad crooked - especially if like me the kilt hangs from the pelvis. Made to measure is the only way to go as without fit in waist and hips the whole just dosen't quite work or perform as well. The best of all worlds is the measured and fitted (many times) kilt. That requires living with the kilt maker or being the kilt maker.

Being a perfectionist is an asset and a curse here. My standards seem higher than many of the commercial kilt makers out there regardless of cost. Even though I tend to tweek just about all my kilts for one reason or another, I really makes it worth it if the kilt is "top notch" to begin with.
And Steve, bless your black heart , you're going to get me into another "project" yet....

[Friday]

Rant Alert Warning.

Wool is a very forgiving fabric. P/V when pressed, creates permanent creases. The creases in Wool can be steamed out and re-pressed almost forever. Any mistakes are quickly corrected and you can start all over.

Wool when pressed at too high a temperature will burn and not be suitable for use. P/V when pressed at too high a temperature will melt the polyester/rayon plastic and leave not only permanent creases but also a shine on the fabric. However, if P/V is pressed a a slightly lower temperature it will hold a nice crease. This crease can be steamed out and repressed numerous times.

The really cool thing about making a kilt in the traditional manner is that until you cut-away the pleats you can pick out all the stitches and you are back to a long piece of fabric.

The same can be said for a P/V (properly pressed) or ploy/cotton kilt. Before cutting away the pleats any kilt (other than maybe leather)you can pick out the stitches and
start over.

My advice to a beginner kiltmaker, who is thinking about hand sewing, is to find the best fabric you can afford.

Quality fabric does not have to be expensive, Frugal shopping can net you high quality material at a lower price. Two yard of double width wool on the remnant bin may be inexpensive but still high quality.

16oz premium Kilt Wool does cost more than the WalMart specials but the difference in how it sews is like night and day.

At $50 (US) or more a yard, a yard of wool does cost more, more than my yearly kilting budget, including kilt nights. On my budget I can't afford one yard of 16oz wool tartan. I look for material that has moved to discount bins because of end of seasons or general stock rotation. Does the quality of material go down as it is rotated into the discount bin?

I would prefer to hand sew a kilt in good quality wool than anything else. It is easier and in the end you have a premium kilt you can be really proud to wear.

I would prefer wool but it out of many of our price range. As for quality, are you saying that those of us that have made Xkilts out of ploy/cotton should not be proud of our effort because it is not wool? Should I not be proud of the USAKilt casual kilt I have because it is not of wool? I have a couple of Poylester/Rayon kilts I have taken a great deal of care in making should I have no pride because they are not made of wool? Quality wool may be a pleasure to sew but at it's price point it is not always an option! I was trying to provide a low cost entry option.

Good quality fabric really is easier to sew. That is not just a myth. If your goal in the beginning is to practice your needle work then you owe it to yourself to use the easiest fabric to work with.

If you are thinking about machine sewing then good quality P/V or Poly/Cotton is the way to start. But again, buy the best quality you can afford.

Definitely buy the best material you can, but, do not pay more than you have too. Two yard of double width cloth and you can have a quality box pleated kilt. You can often find small pieces of cloth like this in remnant bins in fabric store at extreme discount. Is the quality less because I was frugal and found the cloth in the remnant bin? If you shop as the season change you can often find quality material on sale so the store can make room for new stock. Buy the best you can afford but do not bay more than you have to.

It all comes down to the end product. Making a kilt the first time is a very long and involved process. Wouldn't you rather have a really nice kilt in the end than one that is just your practice kilt?

I was advocating a step by step technique to learn as you progress. In making an Xkilt you practice pleating and fitting, with out the concern of pleating a tartan. In the end you have a quality XKilt. Or, are you suggesting that an XKilt or a modern kilt is not quality and should not be worn with pride? Once, you have an understanding of the fit a design of a kilt add the tartan and pleating process. I suggest a polyester/rayon tartan as a inexpensive step to learn pleating to stripe of sett. Again, are you suggesting that a polyester/rayon kilt is not quality and should not be worn with pride?

The difference in price, for an entire kilt, between bargain basement mystery fabric and first quality Poly/Cotton is only about $20.00 or maybe $30.00.

First quality cloth is the only type to use, however, with good shopping habits this cloth can often be purchased at a lower price. Base the quality on the fabric not the price of the fabric. Good shopping habits can net excellent material at excellent prices. The remaining money can be used for a sporran or quality yarn to kit your own hose.

So if you are thinking about making a kilt, think also the finished kilt. After a week or a month of sewing you should be proud of your work. You will want to strap your kilt on and go out to show it off.

Even using poly/cotton or Polyester/rayon a quality product can be built depending on effort going it to it. You take the best material you can afford and put the best effort into it and wear it with pride.

You may want to post pics here and bask in the accolades of your fellow members.
Ask yourself --- What would you be proud to wear when you get it done?

No, I don't want to post pictures here. First I am reluctant to post picture on the internet. Second I have posted in the past. Many of the accolades are like this criticisms based on misinterpretations of what was done or said. At no point was the use of cheap or "bargain basement mystery fabric" advocated. Inexpensive alternatives were being proposed. My first Xkilt was fitted and fitted and fitted however, upon completion it did not fit correctly and had problems. By using quality material purchased frugally I was able to set it aside and start on another with out worrying about having to spend weeks dismantling. I never said that wool should not be used, but, I for one and I think there are a lot of others, can not afford wool, especially if there is a chance to destroy the cloth. I was simply trying to give a lower cost alternative entry into kilt making.

Being a perfectionist is an asset and a curse here. My standards seem higher than many of the kilt makers out there regardless of cost.

High cost does not always relate to high standards, High standards equates to the personal integrity that you put into your effort. Just because the cost of the materials I use are not high does not mean my standards are not high.

[tundramanq]

Friday , I edited that line to say what I mean. Wasn't a crack at DIY. I really gotta quit posting before coffee.

[The Wizard of BC]

Friday,

If you would kindly look back over my sentences that you quoted you will notice that no where did I say that wool was better or preferable to other fabrics.
I also did not say that fabric need be expensive to be good.

I said that anyone would be well served if they use the highest quality fabrics they can afford.

I make kilts out of Poly/Cotton blend fabric, from 100% Cotton, Polyester/Rayon blends and Wool. Regardless of what I am making the kilt from, I try my best to use the best fabrics I can find and afford.

No where did I say that high cost equates to high quality. No where did I say or even imply that a smart person would not find the highest quality at the most reasonable price.

I'm sorry but I think you completely misunderstood my words.

Please re-read what I actually wrote.

[gwynng]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the valuable information. It has inspired me. I am an artist and pretty good with making things, so why not try a kilt? I think the first place to start is Barb's book. Seems that no matter the choice material, whether in a custom made kilt an off the rack or one you make yourself, quality is the bottom line, which make total sense. Thanks again.

[David Thorpe]

I think the first place to start is Barb's book.

Excellent choice. You will not be disappointed. I am now building my 5th kilt using TAoK. Be cautioned that it can be addicting!

[Friday]

Excellent choice. You will not be disappointed. I am now building my 5th kilt using TAoK. Be cautioned that it can be addicting!

+ 1

[Require]

I'm a cheapskate so I see how the PV is tempting, but I just feel like you'll get more wear out of the wool.
Wool all the way!