In Your Face Kilting

[Clockwork]

I may have given the wrong impression in my posts, but the way I interpreted Ron's original post reflects how I personally view wearing kilts. I don't wear them to purposely be 'in your face', I wear them because I like them and find them to be very comfortable. However, I acknowledge that they are so different here in the states, that they end up being 'in your face' to many people, due to the social expectations regarding a person's attire.

I think a good parallel to this situation is one of which my father dealt with when he was younger. He liked the Harley-Davidson motorcycles and rode one regularly. At that time, they carried an association with gangs and drugs, neither of which he was interested in. He simply liked how they sounded and how they rode. He rode his bike around proudly, in spite of the fact that it often had an association with something he did not care for. It invariably offended someone, somewhere by simply existing.

In that same context, there are still many ignorant people here in the US who have no idea what a kilt is or why a person would wear one, which results in people making false (and often negative) assumptions. It doesn't matter how properly or improperly I would wear it, its mere existence will offend someone.

Maybe this will give some food for thought.

Cheers,
-Jake

[MizzouScotsman]

After reflecting on this thread for a couple of days, I have to say that the whole "in your face kilting" idea is exactly why I don't wear the kilt very often. It is precisely that sort of thing that I want to avoid. For the folks who intend to wear the kilt for that reason, it's your prerogative, but surely you must understand that wearing it to "mess with peoples' minds" is naturally going to cause a generally negative reaction from the public. That's what happens when one dresses or acts specifically for shock value. From the wording of the original quote, I envision a person wearing a kilt with the purpose of being outrageous and challenging others to say something about it. I assume that's the point, and as Jock said, I find that sad. It reflects poorly on the rest of us who wear the kilt for other reasons. The public will relegate the kilt to the same 'box' as mohawks, punk rockers, Goths, Emos, or others who dress oddly for the purpose of shock value.

Like most others here, I do want to be able to express my own personal style, and I refuse to conform to the sartorial homogeneity of our modern society which has trended towards t-shirts and blue-jeans as the norm. But using the kilt as a vehicle to be aggressively challenging seems like a disservice to the history and cultural significance of the kilt. And because the public has indeed seen people wearing the kilt in an "in your face" manner, they often expect that if you're wearing it, this is your intent. Of course, this will vary by location and context, but it's because of this that I have gravitated towards wearing the kilt in a more traditional manner, and attempting to look well-dressed and respectable when doing so. My part of the world doesn't have much in the way of Scottish influence, and in the few times I've worn the kilt out in the general public, it does get a lot of attention. I can choose whether to be aggressive and "in your face", or be respectable. Do I want others to see the kilt as positive or negative? That's the question I ask myself before choosing to kilt up for going to town and being the representative of the kilt. And I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would choose to represent it in such a way that people who have never seen a kilt in real life might take a negative view of it.

To each his own, of course. But for those of us whose desire is for the kilt to be accepted outwith Scotland as a traditional and acceptable form of men's attire (and with the cultural significance to which it is attached), it seems like we face an uphill battle when our counterparts are out there "messing with peoples' minds" and using the kilt to do so.

Just something to consider...

I understand completely what you're saying. The way I see it is this - my wearing of the kilt is more in line with my heritage and my homage to it and my family. The fact that it's "in your face" is simply a product that it's different. I don't wear it to garner attention but it does simply because it's not something one sees every day. I went to the opera on Saturday. I dressed my best...MacDonald modern, vest, kilt jacket, semi formal sporran, and a nice black silk tie. My wife was dressed stunningly as always. At the opera, people looked but some made flattering comments like "love the kilt", or questions about the tartan. Only ran into one question I would consider inappropriate about whether or not I was "commando". One young lady even asked if I minded taking a picture with her, which I obliged.

Now if I were wearing a suit, no one would have yelled "nice suit" nor would people have wanted their picture with me. I did not dress in the kilt for this response, although I knew to expect it, as it's happened before. But I will not stop wearing my kilt because of these responses. Nay, I will wear it more as it allows me to tell people who I am, a proud man with deep Scottish heritage. If one of the products is the possibility of "in your face" attitude, the so be it. I will not let people's looks or comments stop me from being me. That's one reason why I love working my clan's tent at highland games, we are the norm there...not the bifurcated. I am half tempted, in jest, to say "nice jeans" to someone walking the clan village.

Some are small minded and will see nothing but fringe in men wearing a kilt. The vast majority are curious and honestly interested in the garment when I wear it. I say with pride when people ask the tartan, "I am of Clan MacDonald" and it gives me a chance to give them my Deputy State Commissioner card for the State of Missouri.

So all I'm trying to say is that a natural byproduct of wearing the kilt is the "in your face" attitude simply because we dress different that society here has dictated that we dress. I also know that I am freer than that small minority who may see me in the same class as the "mohawked" as I am my own man and society will not dictate what I can wear....much like my Scottish ancestors.

[Chase]

After reflecting on this thread for a couple of days, I have to say that the whole "in your face kilting" idea is exactly why I don't wear the kilt very often. It is precisely that sort of thing that I want to avoid. For the folks who intend to wear the kilt for that reason, it's your prerogative, but surely you must understand that wearing it to "mess with peoples' minds" is naturally going to cause a generally negative reaction from the public. That's what happens when one dresses or acts specifically for shock value. From the wording of the original quote, I envision a person wearing a kilt with the purpose of being outrageous and challenging others to say something about it. I assume that's the point, and as Jock said, I find that sad. It reflects poorly on the rest of us who wear the kilt for other reasons. The public will relegate the kilt to the same 'box' as mohawks, punk rockers, Goths, Emos, or others who dress oddly for the purpose of shock value.

Like most others here, I do want to be able to express my own personal style, and I refuse to conform to the sartorial homogeneity of our modern society which has trended towards t-shirts and blue-jeans as the norm. But using the kilt as a vehicle to be aggressively challenging seems like a disservice to the history and cultural significance of the kilt. And because the public has indeed seen people wearing the kilt in an "in your face" manner, they often expect that if you're wearing it, this is your intent. Of course, this will vary by location and context, but it's because of this that I have gravitated towards wearing the kilt in a more traditional manner, and attempting to look well-dressed and respectable when doing so. My part of the world doesn't have much in the way of Scottish influence, and in the few times I've worn the kilt out in the general public, it does get a lot of attention. I can choose whether to be aggressive and "in your face", or be respectable. Do I want others to see the kilt as positive or negative? That's the question I ask myself before choosing to kilt up for going to town and being the representative of the kilt. And I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would choose to represent it in such a way that people who have never seen a kilt in real life might take a negative view of it.

To each his own, of course. But for those of us whose desire is for the kilt to be accepted outwith Scotland as a traditional and acceptable form of men's attire (and with the cultural significance to which it is attached), it seems like we face an uphill battle when our counterparts are out there "messing with peoples' minds" and using the kilt to do so.

Just something to consider...

Great Thread...Best response by far, articlualted with clarity...Really put things in perspective for me...Thanks Tobus.

[ThistleDown]

You are a wise man, Tobus.

[guardsman]

Was it MacSpadger who mentioned Lederhosen,well know while at the Braemar Gathering there was actually a chap in the said clothing! The place was awash with kilts,some trousers and trews,and this chap in leather shorts,well he looked different,I will give him that

[LitTrog]

I may have given the wrong impression in my posts, but the way I interpreted Ron's original post reflects how I personally view wearing kilts. I don't wear them to purposely be 'in your face', I wear them because I like them and find them to be very comfortable. However, I acknowledge that they are so different here in the states, that they end up being 'in your face' to many people, due to the social expectations regarding a person's attire.

I think a good parallel to this situation is one of which my father dealt with when he was younger. He liked the Harley-Davidson motorcycles and rode one regularly. At that time, they carried an association with gangs and drugs, neither of which he was interested in. He simply liked how they sounded and how they rode. He rode his bike around proudly, in spite of the fact that it often had an association with something he did not care for. It invariably offended someone, somewhere by simply existing.

In that same context, there are still many ignorant people here in the US who have no idea what a kilt is or why a person would wear one, which results in people making false (and often negative) assumptions. It doesn't matter how properly or improperly I would wear it, its mere existence will offend someone.

Maybe this will give some food for thought.

Cheers,
-Jake

Yep. I'm not aggressively wearing the kilt or making a spectacle, but I know that some others see it that way. I refuse to let that dictate when and where I wear it. I think that's where many of the responses are coming from.

Tobus makes some excellent points; however, I look at what is trending to be popular and acceptable in our culture and I resist letting that dictate what I do. For me, that's not aggression--it's just allowing the river of [excrement] to part at my ankles and flow past without sweeping me along.

[MacSpadger]

Was it MacSpadger who mentioned Lederhosen,well know while at the Braemar Gathering there was actually a chap in the said clothing! The place was awash with kilts,some trousers and trews,and this chap in leather shorts,well he looked different,I will give him that

There is a guy that wears Lederhosen to piping compeitions and Highland Games. I met him at an SPSL do in London a few years ago. He loves piping and I think he pipes himself, but he has no Scottish ancestry so wears what he considers his national dress, the Lederhosen, as his family were Tyrolean/Bavarian. Funnily enough I was thinking of him when I posted about the kilt not being "in your face" or "messing with your mind" over here at all. As you say, in a sea of kilts and sporrans, this guy stands out as an individual.

[Tobus]

I understand completely what you're saying. The way I see it is this - my wearing of the kilt is more in line with my heritage and my homage to it and my family. The fact that it's "in your face" is simply a product that it's different. I don't wear it to garner attention but it does simply because it's not something one sees every day. I went to the opera on Saturday. I dressed my best...MacDonald modern, vest, kilt jacket, semi formal sporran, and a nice black silk tie. My wife was dressed stunningly as always. At the opera, people looked but some made flattering comments like "love the kilt", or questions about the tartan. Only ran into one question I would consider inappropriate about whether or not I was "commando". One young lady even asked if I minded taking a picture with her, which I obliged.

Now if I were wearing a suit, no one would have yelled "nice suit" nor would people have wanted their picture with me. I did not dress in the kilt for this response, although I knew to expect it, as it's happened before. But I will not stop wearing my kilt because of these responses. Nay, I will wear it more as it allows me to tell people who I am, a proud man with deep Scottish heritage. If one of the products is the possibility of "in your face" attitude, the so be it. I will not let people's looks or comments stop me from being me. That's one reason why I love working my clan's tent at highland games, we are the norm there...not the bifurcated. I am half tempted, in jest, to say "nice jeans" to someone walking the clan village.

Some are small minded and will see nothing but fringe in men wearing a kilt. The vast majority are curious and honestly interested in the garment when I wear it. I say with pride when people ask the tartan, "I am of Clan MacDonald" and it gives me a chance to give them my Deputy State Commissioner card for the State of Missouri.

So all I'm trying to say is that a natural byproduct of wearing the kilt is the "in your face" attitude simply because we dress different that society here has dictated that we dress. I also know that I am freer than that small minority who may see me in the same class as the "mohawked" as I am my own man and society will not dictate what I can wear....much like my Scottish ancestors.

From the way you describe your wearing of the kilt, I would say it's not "in your face" at all. Is it different? Sure. But it sounds like you wear it with a friendly attitude, and in a manner which invites people to approach you and ask questions or ask to have their picture taken with you. This is not "in your face" at all. It is not "messing with peoples' minds" at all. It's good public relations. That is the complete opposite of what I perceive the OP to be saying.

A lot of it has to do with how the kilt is worn in context. If you wear a kilt to the opera with a jacket and tie, as you did, it is still different than wearing a suit, but it is presented as respectable and classy. Even though you're wearing a kilt, you appear well-dressed. Had you worn it with combat boots, scrunched hose, and a t-shirt, obviously that would have garnered a different reaction. To me, that would have been "in your face" to your fellow opera-goers.

And attitude has a lot to do with it too. If you appear friendly, reserved, cultured, well-groomed, and polite, you are more likely to get a favourable response than if you are standing in an aggressive posture, throwing menacing looks around the room, puffing up your chest in defiance when someone approaches you, or generally acting uncouth and macho. It's quite possible that I have completely misinterpreted the intent of the OP, but when I think of "in your face kilting", it's the latter that comes to mind, not the former. The term "in your face" implies a sense of aggression.

Ironically, my first foray into kilt-wearing in public was done with more of an "in your face" attitude. In retrospect, it was a product of my own insecurity. I figured that if I was going to put myself out there in public, with the very real possibility of people making fun of me, I would need to take a proactive stance and try to look mean or challenging or macho. Basically, to dare them to make any sort of comment. And because of my own insecurity, I was constantly on edge. I was "that guy" who was throwing menacing looks around, overcompensating in the machismo department. Thankfully, though, that phase didn't last long. It didn't take long to realize that I'm much more comfortable when I dress nicely and keep a friendly yet reserved countenance, and I find that people are more friendly towards me in return. If it's their first time to see a man in a kilt, I feel that they come away from it with a positive impression rather than a negative one. Most importantly, their preconceived notions of mens' attire have still been challenged, but the results are far more likely to be kilt-friendly if the kilt-wearer himself is a good representative instead of a menace.

[creagdhubh]

I need to pull a Kyle here and say a most emphatic ***!

I couldn't agree more, David! Tobus, extremely well said and I agree with Chase; well articulated, clear, concise and your point comes across in a very educated, tactful and mature manner.

With that being said, here it is....

***

Best regards,

[MizzouScotsman]

From the way you describe your wearing of the kilt, I would say it's not "in your face" at all. Is it different? Sure. But it sounds like you wear it with a friendly attitude, and in a manner which invites people to approach you and ask questions or ask to have their picture taken with you. This is not "in your face" at all. It is not "messing with peoples' minds" at all. It's good public relations. That is the complete opposite of what I perceive the OP to be saying.

A lot of it has to do with how the kilt is worn in context. If you wear a kilt to the opera with a jacket and tie, as you did, it is still different than wearing a suit, but it is presented as respectable and classy. Even though you're wearing a kilt, you appear well-dressed. Had you worn it with combat boots, scrunched hose, and a t-shirt, obviously that would have garnered a different reaction. To me, that would have been "in your face" to your fellow opera-goers.

And attitude has a lot to do with it too. If you appear friendly, reserved, cultured, well-groomed, and polite, you are more likely to get a favourable response than if you are standing in an aggressive posture, throwing menacing looks around the room, puffing up your chest in defiance when someone approaches you, or generally acting uncouth and macho. It's quite possible that I have completely misinterpreted the intent of the OP, but when I think of "in your face kilting", it's the latter that comes to mind, not the former. The term "in your face" implies a sense of aggression.

Ironically, my first foray into kilt-wearing in public was done with more of an "in your face" attitude. In retrospect, it was a product of my own insecurity. I figured that if I was going to put myself out there in public, with the very real possibility of people making fun of me, I would need to take a proactive stance and try to look mean or challenging or macho. Basically, to dare them to make any sort of comment. And because of my own insecurity, I was constantly on edge. I was "that guy" who was throwing menacing looks around, overcompensating in the machismo department. Thankfully, though, that phase didn't last long. It didn't take long to realize that I'm much more comfortable when I dress nicely and keep a friendly yet reserved countenance, and I find that people are more friendly towards me in return. If it's their first time to see a man in a kilt, I feel that they come away from it with a positive impression rather than a negative one. Most importantly, their preconceived notions of mens' attire have still been challenged, but the results are far more likely to be kilt-friendly if the kilt-wearer himself is a good representative instead of a menace.

I see what you mean. I would never wear combat boots and low socks as I don't particularly like the look and it is a bit more on the aggressive side. I have, on many occasion, worn a t-shirt with my kilt as, at first, I never saw the kilt as anything other than a very casual garment. But upon further readings and seeing things at Highland games, I have come to see the kilt as a very flexible garment, more so than suits. It is not only casual but classy. I wear my kilt to work as often as I can simply because I love the look and the feeling it gives me to wear it. I have started, thanks to X-Markers, adding bits such as my soon to arrive first bonnet.

I just guess that my interpretation of the "in your face" is different (maybe I'm trying to be too philosophical). I see, as a whole, society's definition of "in your face" as anything that is outside of what it considers the norm. In Scotland, kilt wearing is seen every day and is attached to the culture. Here in the US, it is not seen too much outside of Highland games, Irish fests, and the X-Markers. I am by no means a proponent of aggressively getting up in people's faces or throwing menacing glances around a room. I find when I wear my kilt, I'm more open to people. My wife says that I can walk into a room a full of strangers and walk out with a room full of friends. The kilt seems to amplify that quality as people don't seem hesitant to approach me to ask questions or have their picture taken with me. I do puff up my chest a bit but only in pride when I explain my tartan and my Clan Donald/MacDonald heritage. I am proud of where I came from and the clothing of the culture that I embrace as my own.

And thank you, as I have read this forum, your perspectives on things enlightened me and have educated me greatly. If you ever find yourself up this way at a Highland game, I'd consider it an honor to sit down with ya and tip a pint or two.