I AM KILTED!!

**Magnus Sporrano** · 8th November 04, 07:10 PM

Dread... you can honor them by learning more and writing about your findings. Interview this veteran and learn what you can. Yes, the people here will be interested in his thoughts on the gear itself but we're also interested in the memories that will soon die with him if they aren't written down and shared. You obviously have the ability and the talent. You have inspired me to try to learn more about Black Watch. Run with it!

**Magnus Sporrano** · 8th November 04, 07:10 PM

Dread... you can honor them by learning more and writing about your findings. Interview this veteran and learn what you can. Yes, the people here will be interested in his thoughts on the gear itself but we're also interested in the memories that will soon die with him if they aren't written down and shared. You obviously have the ability and the talent. You have inspired me to try to learn more about Black Watch. Run with it!

**macwilkin** · 8th November 04, 07:21 PM

Fellas,

Point of clarification: the full name of the regiment is The Royal Highland Regiment (The Black Watch) -- two words, not one. The name of the Tartan is offically "Government", as in "Government Sett", because other regiments have worn it in the past, and some still continue to do so, such as the Black Watch of Canada, the Argyll-Sutherland Highlanders, etc.

A nice history of the RHR can be found here:

http://www.btinternet.com/~james.mckay/bwatch42.htm

As for the Scots v. English dispute, there certainly is a rivalry, even sometimes an animosity between soldiers of the two nationalities, but a couple of points to remember:

1. Most Scottish Regiments have never had their full quota filled by Scots -- you'll find Irish (of course!), English, and now Fijians and Gurkhas make up the other ranks of the Scottish regiments, as well as other residents of the British Commonwealth. The RHR has a large contingent from Fiji, and the Royal Scots have quite a few Gurkhas. There is an old joke about someone seeing a Gordon Highlander at prayer in a synagogue in Aberdeen!

For a more comic look at the Scottish Regiments, see George MacDonald Fraser's "MacAuslan" series (The General danced at dawn, MacAuslan in the Rough, etc.) -- Fraser served in the Burma campaign in the Border Regiment (a North County English regiment with a hard-fighting reputation) and then as an officer in the Gordons.

2. I'm certainly not questioning this gentleman's memory, but the Brits I've talked to who served in the British Army have nothing but the deepest respect for the Scottish Regiments, and if nothing, a wee bit o' envy for their esprit de corps, although many English County Regiments have impressive histories themselves (the Northumberland Fusiliers immediately come to mind, as well as the Royal Hampshires). Usually in every WWII movie where there are Brits, there is usually a piper or someone from a Highland Regiments -- the Highlander became a symbol of the British Army because of their distinctive dress to many people around the World.

The Welsh Regiments and the Scots hated each other far worse than the Scots & English -- don't ask me why. A good book to understand the customs and traditions of the British Army is "Mr. Kipling's Army" by Byron Farwell. Great read!

Sir Winston Churchill, the most famous Englishman of WWII, had nothing but praise for his Highlanders; he called the Gordons "the finest regiment in the world", and Sir Winston should know: he served with the Royal Scots Fusiliers in WWI! It is said that when he reviewed the 8th Army in Tripoli during the North African Campaign, the 51st Highland Division marched by singing the very bawdy and downright pornographic Scottish folk song "The Ball of Kerrimuir" (anyone here know that one -- I am still working on all 100+ verses! :mrgreen

-- Churchill broke into a big smile when he heard the lyrics, and the BBC had to destroy their recording, because their film obviously couldn't be shown at home! :mrgreen:

Whew! Sorry to prattle on, have to put that history degree to guid use every now and again!

Cheers,

T.

**macwilkin** · 8th November 04, 07:21 PM

Fellas,

Point of clarification: the full name of the regiment is The Royal Highland Regiment (The Black Watch) -- two words, not one. The name of the Tartan is offically "Government", as in "Government Sett", because other regiments have worn it in the past, and some still continue to do so, such as the Black Watch of Canada, the Argyll-Sutherland Highlanders, etc.

A nice history of the RHR can be found here:

http://www.btinternet.com/~james.mckay/bwatch42.htm

As for the Scots v. English dispute, there certainly is a rivalry, even sometimes an animosity between soldiers of the two nationalities, but a couple of points to remember:

1. Most Scottish Regiments have never had their full quota filled by Scots -- you'll find Irish (of course!), English, and now Fijians and Gurkhas make up the other ranks of the Scottish regiments, as well as other residents of the British Commonwealth. The RHR has a large contingent from Fiji, and the Royal Scots have quite a few Gurkhas. There is an old joke about someone seeing a Gordon Highlander at prayer in a synagogue in Aberdeen!

For a more comic look at the Scottish Regiments, see George MacDonald Fraser's "MacAuslan" series (The General danced at dawn, MacAuslan in the Rough, etc.) -- Fraser served in the Burma campaign in the Border Regiment (a North County English regiment with a hard-fighting reputation) and then as an officer in the Gordons.

2. I'm certainly not questioning this gentleman's memory, but the Brits I've talked to who served in the British Army have nothing but the deepest respect for the Scottish Regiments, and if nothing, a wee bit o' envy for their esprit de corps, although many English County Regiments have impressive histories themselves (the Northumberland Fusiliers immediately come to mind, as well as the Royal Hampshires). Usually in every WWII movie where there are Brits, there is usually a piper or someone from a Highland Regiments -- the Highlander became a symbol of the British Army because of their distinctive dress to many people around the World.

The Welsh Regiments and the Scots hated each other far worse than the Scots & English -- don't ask me why. A good book to understand the customs and traditions of the British Army is "Mr. Kipling's Army" by Byron Farwell. Great read!

Sir Winston Churchill, the most famous Englishman of WWII, had nothing but praise for his Highlanders; he called the Gordons "the finest regiment in the world", and Sir Winston should know: he served with the Royal Scots Fusiliers in WWI! It is said that when he reviewed the 8th Army in Tripoli during the North African Campaign, the 51st Highland Division marched by singing the very bawdy and downright pornographic Scottish folk song "The Ball of Kerrimuir" (anyone here know that one -- I am still working on all 100+ verses! :mrgreen

-- Churchill broke into a big smile when he heard the lyrics, and the BBC had to destroy their recording, because their film obviously couldn't be shown at home! :mrgreen:

Whew! Sorry to prattle on, have to put that history degree to guid use every now and again!

Cheers,

T.

**macwilkin** · 8th November 04, 07:21 PM

Fellas,

Point of clarification: the full name of the regiment is The Royal Highland Regiment (The Black Watch) -- two words, not one. The name of the Tartan is offically "Government", as in "Government Sett", because other regiments have worn it in the past, and some still continue to do so, such as the Black Watch of Canada, the Argyll-Sutherland Highlanders, etc.

A nice history of the RHR can be found here:

http://www.btinternet.com/~james.mckay/bwatch42.htm

As for the Scots v. English dispute, there certainly is a rivalry, even sometimes an animosity between soldiers of the two nationalities, but a couple of points to remember:

1. Most Scottish Regiments have never had their full quota filled by Scots -- you'll find Irish (of course!), English, and now Fijians and Gurkhas make up the other ranks of the Scottish regiments, as well as other residents of the British Commonwealth. The RHR has a large contingent from Fiji, and the Royal Scots have quite a few Gurkhas. There is an old joke about someone seeing a Gordon Highlander at prayer in a synagogue in Aberdeen!

For a more comic look at the Scottish Regiments, see George MacDonald Fraser's "MacAuslan" series (The General danced at dawn, MacAuslan in the Rough, etc.) -- Fraser served in the Burma campaign in the Border Regiment (a North County English regiment with a hard-fighting reputation) and then as an officer in the Gordons.

2. I'm certainly not questioning this gentleman's memory, but the Brits I've talked to who served in the British Army have nothing but the deepest respect for the Scottish Regiments, and if nothing, a wee bit o' envy for their esprit de corps, although many English County Regiments have impressive histories themselves (the Northumberland Fusiliers immediately come to mind, as well as the Royal Hampshires). Usually in every WWII movie where there are Brits, there is usually a piper or someone from a Highland Regiments -- the Highlander became a symbol of the British Army because of their distinctive dress to many people around the World.

The Welsh Regiments and the Scots hated each other far worse than the Scots & English -- don't ask me why. A good book to understand the customs and traditions of the British Army is "Mr. Kipling's Army" by Byron Farwell. Great read!

Sir Winston Churchill, the most famous Englishman of WWII, had nothing but praise for his Highlanders; he called the Gordons "the finest regiment in the world", and Sir Winston should know: he served with the Royal Scots Fusiliers in WWI! It is said that when he reviewed the 8th Army in Tripoli during the North African Campaign, the 51st Highland Division marched by singing the very bawdy and downright pornographic Scottish folk song "The Ball of Kerrimuir" (anyone here know that one -- I am still working on all 100+ verses! :mrgreen

-- Churchill broke into a big smile when he heard the lyrics, and the BBC had to destroy their recording, because their film obviously couldn't be shown at home! :mrgreen:

Whew! Sorry to prattle on, have to put that history degree to guid use every now and again!

Cheers,

T.

**Magnus Sporrano** · 8th November 04, 07:32 PM

Great info!

Interesting note, which I will certainly keep in mind when I order my Black Watch kilt:

"The pleats of the kilt worn by The Black Watch are rounded, whereas the kilts of other Highland regiments have flat pleats."

**Magnus Sporrano** · 8th November 04, 07:32 PM

Great info!

Interesting note, which I will certainly keep in mind when I order my Black Watch kilt:

"The pleats of the kilt worn by The Black Watch are rounded, whereas the kilts of other Highland regiments have flat pleats."

**Magnus Sporrano** · 8th November 04, 07:32 PM

Great info!

Interesting note, which I will certainly keep in mind when I order my Black Watch kilt:

"The pleats of the kilt worn by The Black Watch are rounded, whereas the kilts of other Highland regiments have flat pleats."