Ghillie brogues - why the dislike and resentment..?

[Tobus]

Fish or fowl?

https://sportkilt.com/product/ghillie-boots/

As far as I can tell from the photo, they've just taken a chunky work boot, added some broguing details, and shaped the area around the lace grommets to roughly resemble ghillie brogues. But the boot still has a big ol' fat tongue, which visually defeats whatever aesthetic they might have been trying to accentuate. It just looks like a cheap work boot to me with nothing giving it any unique character that would be readily visible by a casual observer.

[FossilHunter]

As far as I can tell from the photo, they've just taken a chunky work boot, added some broguing details, and shaped the area around the lace grommets to roughly resemble ghillie brogues. But the boot still has a big ol' fat tongue, which visually defeats whatever aesthetic they might have been trying to accentuate. It just looks like a cheap work boot to me with nothing giving it any unique character that would be readily visible by a casual observer.

The description says the upper is plastic so it’s definitely a cheaply made boot. One would be paying for the design.

[MacKenzie]

I’m all for ankle boots with a kilt, but maybe not those… Something more like these:

What are those?

[ShaunMaxwell]

What are those?

Something a little sleeker, dressier and sturdier is what I meant. Those are some boots from Johnston & Murphy from a few years back. The most similar pair they offer now are these:

https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/xc-fl...20Full%20Grain

Lots of similar options from any number of makers are available.

I like an ankle boot with a kilt in cooler weather on uneven ground, such as you might experience at Highland games, where that photo was taken. But to each his own.

Cheers,

SM

[Tobus]

Something a little sleeker, dressier and sturdier is what I meant. Those are some boots from Johnston & Murphy from a few years back. The most similar pair they offer now are these:

https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/xc-fl...20Full%20Grain

Lots of similar options from any number of makers are available.

I like an ankle boot with a kilt in cooler weather on uneven ground, such as you might experience at Highland games, where that photo was taken. But to each his own.

Cheers,

SM

I am an enthusiastic proponent of ankle boots with the kilt for daywear, especially for outdoor events like Highland Games and festivals. They certainly have an established provenance during Victorian times, to which the MacLeay portraits (amongst other period paintings and photographs) can certainly attest. I would even be so bold as to assert that ankle boots quite handily eclipsed ghillie brogues during the most important evolutionary period of Highland attire, and deserve a place high on the list of traditional footwear.

The modern trend with boots, of course, is to be very chunky and tall. But a narrow, sleek ankle boot hits all the ideal proportions in my view.

I admit to being envious of Shaun's boots that he posted above when I saw him wearing them at the Salado Highland Games a few years ago. I had previously purchased some ankle-height brogued "country boots" from Samuel Windsor but felt they were chunkier than I wanted. Johnston & Murphy, sadly, do not offer footwear in my size. Somehow I stumbled upon Beckett Simonon, and have been very happy with their boots as well as their business model. They are hand-made to order (usually with a couple months lead time). I recently took delivery of my third pair of their "Medina" boots, which I wear to my office job with trousers as well as with the kilt.

Apologies for not having a photo of them whilst kilted, but these are my Beckett Simonon boots. I prefer a cap-toe with simple broguing at the toe & heel seams. But they do offer a full brogue boot (Nolan line) as well, if one is interested.

[MacKenzie]

Thank you gents.

Some of those sleeker, dressier options are what I'm looking for. But with my chicken legs I have not found anything that will close tight around my ankle - even with kilt hose. Perhaps custom is the way to go. It would be worth the $$ if I got something I would actually wear.

[OC Richard]

So I just looked over a pile of images in books and online looking for any Ghillie-like thing.

Many of the images are unclear as to the style of footwear.

When the shoes can be seen well enough to tell what they are, the vast majority of the men (or boys) in kilts (or trews) are wearing shoes that either lace or buckle like ordinary shoes of that period.

I couldn't find a clearer image of the c1750 shoes, but they're clear enough to see that they're closed shoes laced at the top with red laces.

When the shoes can be seen clearly there's no opening nor seam down the front top. They lace, or are buckled, at or near the top, in contrast to modern trainers that lace down the front.

There are two fascinating outliers, shoes with flaps over the top, hiding from us what's going on underneath.

(What we don't see are Outlander knee-high cavalry boots!)

Hopefully I'll be able to see most of these portraits in person this August.

[figheadair]

So I just looked over a pile of images in books and online looking for any Ghillie-like thing.

Many of the images are unclear as to the style of footwear.

When the shoes can be seen well enough to tell what they are, the vast majority of the men (or boys) in kilts (or trews) are wearing shoes that either lace or buckle like ordinary shoes of that period.

I couldn't find a clearer image of the c1750 shoes, but they're clear enough to see that they're closed shoes laced at the top with red laces.

When the shoes can be seen clearly there's no opening nor seam down the front top. They lace, or are buckled, at or near the top, in contrast to modern trainers that lace down the front.

There are two fascinating outliers, shoes with flaps over the top, hiding from us what's going on underneath.

(What we don't see are Outlander knee-high cavalry boots!)

Hopefully I'll be able to see most of these portraits in person this August.

Richard,

Here are a few more from the 18th century, plus a better one of Lord George Murray's red laces. It's noteworthy that the majority of portraits of the period are, understandably, of gentry and that it is clear that from c.1730 European style buckle shoes (bottom left) were the preferred choice for those that could afford them.

Shoes.jpg

[OC Richard]

Thanks!

I would sure love to see a high-resolution clear image of Lord George Murray's shoes.

They're interesting in two ways, one that he's using red laces, the other that the laces are placed lower than usual.

As we see those 17th and 18th century laced shoes usually fasten right at the top.

With buckled shoes we see some earlier ones with small buckles likewise fastening at the top, but through much of the 18th century they're the classic mid-to-late 18th century style with larger buckles fastening a bit further down, with part of the tongue showing.

I'm still looking for an authentic image of the 16th century moccasin-thing or any image of any pre-Allen Brothers ghillie-thing.

A number of articles/sites that discuss "ancient Highland footwear" show the same Armenian shoe, conveniently failing to mention what it is, implying that it's an old Highland thing.

Another image that crops up was lifted from A Short History of the Scottish Dress by RMD Grange (1967).

It's a fairly crude sketch showing a shoe open down the top, laced, labelled "cuaran".

If any of you have that book, can you share if the author gives the provenance of that sketch?

[figheadair]

Thanks!

I would sure love to see a high-resolution clear image of Lord George Murray's shoes.

They're interesting in two ways, one that he's using red laces, the other that the laces are placed lower than usual.

As we see those 17th and 18th century laced shoes usually fasten right at the top.

With buckled shoes we see some earlier ones with small buckles likewise fastening at the top, but through much of the 18th century they're the classic mid-to-late 18th century style with larger buckles fastening a bit further down, with part of the tongue showing.

I'm still looking for an authentic image of the 16th century moccasin-thing or any image of any pre-Allen Brothers ghillie-thing.

A number of articles/sites that discuss "ancient Highland footwear" show the same Armenian shoe, conveniently failing to mention what it is, implying that it's an old Highland thing.

Another image that crops up was lifted from A Short History of the Scottish Dress by RMD Grange (1967).

It's a fairly crude sketch showing a shoe open down the top, laced, labelled "cuaran".

If any of you have that book, can you share if the author gives the provenance of that sketch?

The Lord George Murray painting is in Blair Castle. I've seen it, it's not that clear.

There is a pair of curran type shoes on display in the NMS, close by the portraits of the Piper and champion to the Laird of Grant, and so worth a look when you are there in the summer. They also have this upper which looks like some of those early ones in portraits.

I don't have a copy of the Grange book. There is no mention of a moccasin type shoe in either McClintock's Old Irish and Highland Dress, not Dunbar's History of Highland Dress.