Wannabe Scot

[Ranald]

The important thing about the attitude is that it's a response to the perceived touristy nature of kilt-wearing.

Living in another place known for being a magnet for tourists (Washington DC Metro Area) I can tell you that clothing and behavior that is defined as "tourist-like" is frowned upon as well.

For example, most DC natives avoid the Smithsonian museums like the plague. Why? When I've asked people to go with me the response is usually, "But that's what tourists do."

Another example was once I was visiting a friend in Philadelphia. We went to the art museum and there was a guy posing for a picture on the steps ala "Rocky." My friend commented that it was rare for a native to even go to the museum and that they'd never take such a picture. "Only tourists do that." Of course I then forced her to pose for just such a picture!

It's human nature to want to identify with your subgroup (locals) and not be seen as behaving in a way that characterizes the other (tourists). We're social animals and innocent little instances of group differentiation like that are a part of our every day lives.

So I guess what I'm saying is that the desire to not look like a tourist is probably the most understandable explanation for the low incidence of kilt-wearing in Scotland that I've ever heard.

so what your trying to say that two weeks ago I was the only tourist in Aberdeen, I think not !
Second maybe I've missed the point but I'm no tourist, I was shopping.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Then I feel sorry for you, because you are missing out on the long and storied history of a great people that had a strong influence on America and her history, as well as many other nations.

I can't tell you what to be interested in, or what to read -- I can only do that with my students! ;) -- but I can suggest a few titles! You might want to pick up a copy of "How the Scots Invented the Modern World" by Arthur Herman. You might just find yourself wanting to know more about the contributions of this diaspora people to our nation and to others. "The Mark of the Scots" by Duncan Bruce is also worth looking at. And since you're in Chicago, you might want to check out "The Scots of Chicago, Quiet Immigrants and Their New Society" by Wayne Rethford and June Skinner Sawyers. It is a great book that details the influence of the Scots on the Windy City...Todd

Sorry if I offended anyone with my prior post, was really just sharing my own viewpoint.

Todd, great quote for your class! I may see if I can find one of these books at the library and at least scan one, but I will be honest and say that history has never interested me. Not since college when the textbooks would put me to sleep. Maybe I just never had the good fortune to read a well written history book. I am an avid reader and love to learn, but my experience has been that the history books I have been asked to read (in college) were dry as dust. I could rarely read more than 2 pages straight before getting glazed eyes. Hopefully these are better written.

Raphael's suggestion is a good one. I may have to see what I can find out about Welsh history. Sounds like a good winter project and no time pressures.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

No reason you should. And, if you read back through what I have said in this thread, you'll see that I admitted that up front...

Mike, my question was actually more rhetorical and not directed at anyone. It just happened to be your post that I quoted.

...Or, we can sit around here and talk about nothing more than creases in our pleats. Once we all learn how to steam out the creases, then we can go back to matching our ties to our flashes...

No PLEASE, some of those posting pictures have no fashion sense or color coordination (an I include myself in that list) and I sometimes get retina burn from some of the combinations!

And I actually do enjoy reading the posts that reveal some history. I just do not see knowing that history as necessary to wear the kilt. Similar to not needing to know Scottish cuisine to wear the kilt, as mentioned on another thread.

This is a good thread!

[MacMullen]

Tourist behaviour....as a Native Chicagoan, I am proud to say that I have never been to the top of the Sears Tower. I have not a few friends who are Native New Yorkers who have, similarly, not been to the top of the Empire State Building or to the Statue of Liberty...I guess that nobody wants to look or act like a tourist.

I love playing the tour guide for family and friends when they come up to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I would not classify bhavior in the same category as visiting landmarks. I love to visit the waterfalls up here in the UP, which is a very touristy thing to do, but they're too good to miss. OTH, when I lived in Colorado, I rarely went up to the mountains because they were always there, and I could go whenever I wanted to. Now, I live 1000 miles away from real mountains, and I wish that I had spent more time up there. That said, I guess that I still haven't been to Da Yooper's Tourist Trap in Ishpeming.

Now, behavior is something else. It's been years since I've eaten a pasty (pronounced Pass-Tee), the traditional UP food, but all my friends have to have a pasty when they come up here, cuz that's what Yoopers do. I do, however, swim in Lake Superior, which is a stereotypical Yooper behavior, but then, it's not one that the tourists like to partake in. :mrgreen:

I'm not a daily kilter, but I do enjoy wearing, whether for special occasions or for daywear. I'd love to visit Scotland and Ireland, and would probably wear a kilt while I was there. I have to look way back in my family tree to find my Scot, but I have always identified with the love of independence and freedom that has been such a big part of Scottish history. To me, the kilt is another little piece that connects me to that.

Before I found this forum, most of my Scottish history came from Braveheart and Rob Roy. :-P But, since going to the Burn's Supper and reading this forum, I've read quite a lot about Burns and by Burns, have learned what happened between the Campbells and the MacDonalds, have learned what Hogmanay is, and a lot of history about kilts.

The same with Ireland. I never knew who Brian Boru was until someone asked about a Brian Boru jacket. Now I know.

Whether you're interested or not, you can't help but pick up some history here, and I, for one, am glad for it.

[macwilkin]

Sorry if I offended anyone with my prior post, was really just sharing my own viewpoint.

Todd, great quote for your class! I may see if I can find one of these books at the library and at least scan one, but I will be honest and say that history has never interested me. Not since college when the textbooks would put me to sleep. Maybe I just never had the good fortune to read a well written history book. I am an avid reader and love to learn, but my experience has been that the history books I have been asked to read (in college) were dry as dust. I could rarely read more than 2 pages straight before getting glazed eyes. Hopefully these are better written.

Raphael's suggestion is a good one. I may have to see what I can find out about Welsh history. Sounds like a good winter project and no time pressures.

Unfortunately, you are not the only person who has disliked history because of a bad history textbook or a bad history teacher! That is one of personal missions as a teacher is to teach "good history"... and good history is a well-told story. That is why I do not want to be a full-time academic historian with a PhD -- I want to bring history to the people, and show them how exciting and interesting it can be.

Irgnore the text books. Go with "real" history books. ;)

Cheers,

Todd

[Iolaus]

Just my two cents. I think if you are trying to recreate a "traditional" look, then you will probably be expected, by others, to know a little something about the tradition you are portraying; that's just the way people are. If you're creating a more modern look, people are less likely to expect you to know about history, because you're not portraying history.

I am fairly well read, and some of the trivia that clutters up the back recesses of my mind does have to do with Scots and kilts, but I don't see a need to immerse myself in the culture; the knowledge I pick up casually along the way is good enough.

[Colin]

Now, why should I have to learn about Scotland because I wear a kilt? Even if I were wearing it as a symbol of heritage, I don't see that I must have any knowledge about the history of Scotland to wear it.

That's an easy one. If you don't care what is in a particular post, skip it and move on to the next post. Some of us may find the history and culture of Scotland interesting and want to learn more. If you don't than move past the post and ignore it. It would take me all day to read the new posts on the board first thing in the morning. Fortunately I can tell what is of interest to me and what is not. No need to up the post count by simply replying to something that could just have easily been ignored.

[highlander_Daz]

Heres a few home truths about Scotland, stray away from tourist ares and often you will find bleak housing estates and flats where many people are out of work and have drug issues, Glasgow is the murder capital of Europe, in short a very large percentage of Scots, especially younger Scots are Neds, out of work and very little prospect, much like the rest of the UK. Again away from tourist areas people are suspicious of "strangers" and the further north you head, the harder you will have to work to be accepted, Many people -not Just English are buying houses in villages as "second" homes this pushes the house prices up and makes it difficult for people born and bred in the villages to afford to stay there, of course this causes resentmant, Scots are the unheathiest people in the UK with issues like smoking fatty diests heart attacks ettc, in fact Scotland is called the "sick man" of Europe, wages are lower than the rest of the UK -so the last thing on many people minds is going out and spending £300. on a kilt and learning Gaelic. Scotland is also the home of the greatest inventors in History, we have been shafted by eveyone from the Vikings, the English and anyone else you care to google , but we are still here!! we still have our flag and our accent, Scotland is a hard place to live and work, Glasgow has some very scary people- google Paul Ferris, or Tam McGraw , In Glasgow you will find people without two halfpennys to rub together, yet thier spirit and humor is still there. you upset one you upset us all and if you want to come here, as Mike and Ranald will tell you you have to work Damn hard to prove you not some interloper, becasues we get all kinds of people dumped here and because the government is so soft they get better housing and handhouts than Scots.

[bubba]

Unfortunately, you are not the only person who has disliked history because of a bad history textbook or a bad history teacher! Irgnore the text books. Go with "real" history books. ;)

Cheers,

Todd

Todd, Amen. I loved history in school but hated the idiot text books. I got in lots of trouble in class because I read outside the text book. The teacher would cite an event and make a pronouncement about it and I'd come in the next day and cite all kinds of ands, buts, and therefors and totally wipe out his pronouncement. I won't even go into the 3 day suspension over Pearl Harbor and it's causes. This often lead to a trip to the office. Then, when my kids were in high school I looked at their history books and discovered they were utter trash. They did what I did with similar results. IMO, history is badly taught in the primary and secondary levels (there are exceptional teachers, but most aren't) and it ends up boring the hell out of the kids.

[Colin]

Tourist behaviour....as a Native Chicagoan, I am proud to say that I have never been to the top of the Sears Tower. I have not a few friends who are Native New Yorkers who have, similarly, not been to the top of the Empire State Building or to the Statue of Liberty...I guess that nobody wants to look or act like a tourist.

(not picking on anyone in particular just using part of the Quote)
The other thing that blows me away about this thread is people's efforts to not look like a tourist. I love being a tourist in my own town!!! How much are you missing out on because you don't want to lower yourself to look like a tourist. Holy elitism Batman! I was not born in B.C., but I have tried to contiue to visit some of the best places it has to offer. Do tourists annoy me, damn right they do, but at the same time it is nice to see people appreciating all my city/province/country has to offer other nation's people. I will never be insulted by being called a tourist. If I am in another place I am a tourist, how can calling me one be insulting? I don't however insullt or expect the culture to fit to me, but rather I do my best to learn local customs and traditions. Heck, I have a Lonely Planet for Vancouver and check it out often. I have been here 12 years and still love finding new places. How else can you show visitors your great home and all it has to offer. After all do you think visiting friends and family really want to just see you favourite restaurants or where you work?

In terms of local people not living up to the ideas set by others, how many "Scots" these days are actually of Scottish roots? I know that certain cultures think that Canadians are native/french and that we live in igloos and get about by dog sled. I am not native or french, I have built an igloo and I have gone for a dog sled. But we live in a very modern city that is really not much different than anyother big city. Scotland is the same way. Immigration, emigration, technology, globalization, etc have all played as big a part in Scotland as anyplace. In my opinion more people today are willing to ignore their heritage simply because they want to be seen as modern and not stuck in the past. They also want to keep up with the Joneses (see some Welsh in there) and that means thinking that Paris Hilton is a cultural icon and Burns is just some old poet.

People won't embrace their history if we all make it out to be a bad thing by projecting outdated ideas and images upon them. They will instead rebel against that ideal.