Kilt Maker Disappointment

[Barb T]

For someone your size and shape I would have put in as much taper as I could have made the fabric take. Between 2.5 and 3 inches on each side. 5"-6" total.

Hi Steve

Here's another case where trad kiltmaking differs from contemporary kiltmaking. If there is no difference between the waist and hip measurement in the apron, the rest of the apron edge is straight in a trad kilt, with no flare. Otherwise, it looks really odd to have the entire fell straight and parallel to the tartan stripe and then have the apron flare abruptly below the bottom of the fell.

This actually isn't a common situation, but it would be true whenever a guy has a waist measurement bigger than his hips. A trad kilt is never made with hips smaller than waist, so you'd use the same measurement for the waist and hip, and the kilt would be basically a cylinder. If you try to put flare into the apron by making the waist smaller than the hips in the apron, you'd have to make the hips smaller than the waist across the pleats, and that wouldn't work. So, the kilt has to be a cylinder. Having flare in the apron for such a kilt just doesn't work. And, if the person is wearing his kilt correctly up around his middle (and not under the belly), it should hang pretty straight with nothing pulling to cause the first pleat to kick forward. The only problem would come with unavoidable issues of body shape. If said gentleman carries his weight "behind the counter", as they say, and has both a belly and prominent buttocks, the kilt may not hang very well, but there truly isn't anything you can do about it with the way a trad kilt is made. It's not meant to be a garment tailored to shape and is, pretty much, a legacy of being worn by in-shape soldiers with straight body shapes.

Having said this, _most_ trad kilts have a little flare in the apron, because most kilts have a waist measurement that is smaller than the hip measurement in the apron, and the curve from waist to hip is continued in "A-line" fashion to the bottom of the kilt. And, in my experience with trad kilts, it just doesn't work to put more than about 1.5" each side into the flare. If you try to put more, the apron just wants to fold in a different place.

That's the view from the trad kilt deck!

Cheers,

Barb

[The Wizard of BC]

Darn it Barb you did it again. You are correct. I forgot about the ability of Wool to take a curve.
I knew you were going to catch my mistaken explanation and intended to go back and correct it but got caught up in building a wall and forgot.

To clarify for those non kilt making types reading this---

In my kilts made from Poly/Cottons and Cottons the flair of the apron edge is a straight line.
In Wool kilts the edge of the apron is a gentle "S" shaped curve.

So Barb and I talking about different places to take the measurements from, to create the shaping.

The difference between the hip and the waist is the measurement used to determine the amount of taper. That difference is usually small way up at the Fell, but if you continue it as a straight line down to the hem it can become quite large.

Boy, it's hard to explain this without pictures, diagrams, and Trigonometry.
Take my word for it Barb is correct.

[Barb T]

Hey! How's the wall coming?

B

[The Wizard of BC]

did you ever try to get a gentle "S" curve into a 2x4?

[Barb T]

Hmmmm, no, but I've certainly tried to get pesky S-curves _out_ of a few 2X4s!!

B

[Pleater]

I noticed in the photo of the USMC tartan tank, that although the stripes on the rear pleats are hanging vertically, those at the side are at an angle, with the hem forward of the waist.

It is definitely a fitting problem - the apron being flat and the wearer being rounded being the root of it, I think.

Some clever tailoring is the solution, I think - and possibly a narrower apron and more pleats, to add flare - or maybe even a shaped waistline to get the stripes to stay vertical - I am sure that many hours could be spent trying out different options trying to achieve that perfect fit.

I find that once I do up a belt, my waist is slightly compressed - so for me Velcro could be counter to a proper lie of the aprons, as it would hold them too wide - maybe if I slipped something between the two sides to stop them engaging, fastened the belt, smoothed out the aprons so they were lying flat and only then removed the separator.

[Bob C]

X-Marks rules - with open conversation like this, I could kill hours and hours, just poking the keyboard.

Thanks for being here - from a confirmed curmudgeon (spelling?) retired Marine Master Gunnery Sergeant and died in the wool kilter.

"Curmudgeon" is spelled perfectly. "Dyed" on the other hand...

...unless, of course, you're posting from the grave.

Seriously, though, you obviously know your kilts and know what you want. Get it where you can.

[Dixiecat]

Curses on you o Velcro!

Seriously, I can't believe no one has mentioned velcro as use for those who have limited ability in their hands and have trouble with buckles. Maybe if you told that kiltmaker that as her dog just bit off your fingers, you'll need a bit o' velcro on that kilt to keep it up.......

died in the wool? only if the shepherd was lying with his sheep.....or is it lieing.....hmmm.

[James MacMillan]

The up-side of my tale of woe (tail of woe) experience, is that I had an X-Marker offer to make me a kilt, just the way I wanted it. After many e-mails back and forth (fourth) we came to agreement on all the particulars.

The check has been sent to order the fabric, and now the waiting game begins.

When I get the kilt, I will take mucho photos and give my kilt maker an honest review. After our electronic conversations, I have great confidence, that I will love this new kilt.

I am therefore (thier four) waiting at time with patience (patients)