Wearing a PC in the Daytime??

[JelicoCat]

Soooooo..... Avoid wearing PC jacket during the daylight hours, unless special circumstances apply. Yeah?

[Panache]

Soooooo..... Avoid wearing PC jacket during the daylight hours, unless special circumstances apply. Yeah?

Exactly

Cheers

Jamie

[Monkey@Arms]

If people can accept that fashions they don't like are still valid fashions then everything is Jake.

Sooo, now I'm the poster boy for all fashions people don't like?? Where's Grant when you need him?

Best regards,

You-know-who

[DWFII]

Maybe I can respond to both Alan and Jamie simultaneously...at least their posts, taken together, generated a train of thought that goes something like this...

I don't think that anyone has a moral or ethical obligation to wear a traditional tartan kilt in a specific manner. For me, such a proposition/question doesn't have any meaning.

Rather, being a "traditionalist" is accepting that there are "conventions"...conventions based on history and respect for the people who paid a price, sometimes in blood, to create the world we live in. I'm not being sentimental or engaging in high flying rhetoric here. I simply mean that wearing a kilt meant something to people...means something, even now, to people like Jock. Being a "Traditionalist" is like being a scientist, or an historian...it is acknowledging that there is a right way and a...not-so-right way. Underlying principles that make all that comes after, tenable.

The "acknowledgment" itself is what lies at the heart of the matter. If nothing else, an acknowledgment that the history, the traditions, and yes, even the conventions have value to people.

That in itself is the essence of "tolerance" and "respect"...far more so than the laissez fair "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" abandonment of all adult responsibility.

And from that understanding, just naturally, flows the impulse to "act accordingly" to wear the kilt with the proper accessories. But that's voluntary it is not an ethical or moral mandate.

White hose may, in some circles be an undisputed fashion. I wouldn't deny it...and I don't have enough foresight to say one way or the other if it's just a rather gauche fad (like ruche ties?) or something that will become part of the integral history of the kilt.

But considering the origins of white hose as an acceptable convention, I still think it is deplorable...just as, and I agree with you, Jamie...I think wearing shorts down around your ankles is deplorable. It may be fashion, but it is a fashion the whole purpose of which is to shock and confront. It is a "flaunting"...and as understandable as that may be in adolescents, it is offensive to everyone who believes in decorum and civil behaviour and universal respect. Maybe only mildly offensive and not something to get obviously upset about, but still offensive.

And, in my opinion, it is a a failure...of self-respect, if nothing else...to pretend otherwise.

That doesn't mean that we need to confront everyone and every mistake. But on one hand I think it is incumbent upon us who do value such concepts as respect and tradition to do "due diligence," so to speak. To make it our business to know and to defer to those that know. And to hold fast to, and preserve the attitudes and conventions and traditions, that we respect. Not to yield to the temptation to water them down for no good reason...or for simple expediency--as in the case of white hose.

And on the other hand, speaking only for myself, I would feel the impulse, at least, to point out to someone wearing a set of jump wings upside down, that it was disrespectful. I suspect, Jock and many others often suppress that impulse out of courtesy and a generosity of spirit.

And on the third hand, I wouldn't feel comfortable parsing my answer (for fear of offending someone's delicate sensibilities) if they asked me what I thought of wearing a kilt with the pleats in front. The act of asking implies you are sincerely looking for answers. The act of asking another person implies you want their opinion.

Just as a forum entitled "Traditional Kilts" implies a bias towards tradition and convention and "Classic" Highland Attire.

I am beginning to ramble, so to those one or two individuals (am I being too optimistic?) who are still with me at this point, I'll spare you the rest.

[Alan H]

DFWII I read your entire answer twice, and I appreciate hearing your thoughts.

[Freelancer]

Well, when I first posed this question, I never expected a sort of "Spanish Inquisition"!

Seriously though, the intent of my question was to clarify what I had seen firsthand, namely, a large contingent of PC clad gentleman marching in a parade in the daytime. In the opinion of a traditionalist, did the occasion of a parade qualify as an exception to the usual protocol of formal Highland attire? Well, the question was answered quite thoroughly, and I thank you all for your thoughtfulness and interest in posting your replies.

I must say that it is a credit to this forum that it's members conduct themselves with grace and courtesy, even during what may seem to be a contentious circumstance. I applaud you, one and all.

Best,
Ken

[macwilkin]

Well said, DWFII.

I think Jamie raises a very valid point that there are modern variants in traditional Highland attire, such as white hose, that are now accepted de facto as the norm. Personally, I'm not much on the idea, but I won't begrudge anyone who would wear them.

That being said, I feel at times that traditionalists are marginalized at times by terms such as "kilt police" and the term I loathe, "kilt nazi". Such terms fail to take into account the importance and regards that many have in their hears for the customs and traditions of Highland attire.

If traditionalists are a bit thin-skinned at times, a lot of it is due to being compared (unfairly I might add) to fascist thugs. To get respect, you must give it. While I can only hold myself up to certain standards regarding Highland dress, I feel that even the most contemporary kilt wearer should, if nothing else, acknowledge the long history of Highland attire -- just as I acknowledge that Highland attire is changing to a degree.

Regards,

Todd

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

...MoR may dislike Prince Charlie coatees,

Jamie, I don't dislike coatees. What I loathe are the poorly made, ill-fitting, and totally over priced "Prince Charlie" coatees that one sees in profusion. Most are cut too short in the body and not full enough in the front, especially for guys with a bit of a bay window for a tummy.

The Dress Argyll jacket, even if poorly tailored, offers the advantage of being able to be worn day or evening, and is far more flattering to a large waisted gentleman.

The same is true for white socks-- they are fine for bandsmen and pipers a'piping.

They are ghastly on men in civilian attire (bandsmen and pipers are in "uniform" in my book) because, being white, they accentuate the thickness of the leg, giving larger men the look of having "beer keg" calves, while at the same time making a man's legs look even shorter, something gentlemen who find the letter "S" written after their jacket size usually want to avoid. Finally, they send out the signal that your outfit, no matter how smart, expensive, or well tailored, is probably rented.

That's just for the record...

[Bugbear]

See! There's another MacMillan of Rathdown post on wearing an Argyle for black tie attire rather than a PC.

I still like the term "clasic," but there are a couple of historical topics I should look into in relation to Scotland and my own heritage?, so to speak...

Perhaps there are traditions and conventions in that heritage that I could think of as traditional...

Thankfully there is a lot of modern research into that history and heritage being done now a days.

[DWFII]

DFWII I read your entire answer twice, and I appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Well, that is going beyond the call of duty! :mrgreen:

But it is also a great compliment...I thank you.