Buyer Beware

[Cavebear58]

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[M. A. C. Newsome]

I'm back from three blissful days with no Internet, and am reading the new posts in this thread. I just want to step in and reiterate that I did not start this thread about the relative merits of expensive vs. cheap goods, or even high quality vs. low quality alternatives. Nor did I start this thread to discuss the relative merits of buying goods made from one country over another.

This thread is about truth in advertising and supporting businesses who follow ethical business practices. Period.

[Cavebear58]

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[RockyR]

... what one person considers ethical another considers uncommercial, and what one considers unethical another considers business as normal.

I would argue that it is as unethical to create a misleading impression of one's corporate heritage as it is to copy pictures of a competitor's products, but it is still just my interpretation of 'ethical'.

Cheers, Graham.

I personally don't see a 'MAJOR' (if any) unethical nature of trying to tie the name of your business to tug at the heartstrings of a country or region (when it relates to the product you're selling). LOTS of businesses inside and outside of Scotland do this... Gaelic Themes (scotland), Great Highlandwear (Pakistan), Heritage of Scotland (Scotland selling Pakistani Kilts), Skye Highland Outfitters (US)...

In Colorado, there's a WATER company that is named the Highland Water Company (http://totemdenver.blogspot.com/2006...y-company.html). They have water delivered by men in Kilts. They have NOTHING to do with Scotland. Is this 'unethical'?

By that method of thinking, you could say that 'any company using a name having ANYTHING to do with Scotland or Ireland that is based outside of Scotland / Ireland is unethical'. Is Matt Newsome 'unethical' for running the 'Scottish Tartans Museum' in the USA? I don't think he is.

I think we should stick to Matt's original point as he's the one who started the thread... businesses STEALING pictures and STEALING descriptions and STEALING designs who PURPOSEFULLY mislead customers are theives. Period. In my mind, that's a pretty black and white ethical issue.

[Cavebear58]

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[SteveB]

The thread that will never really end. This would be a hoot if it had to be in three word posts. The OP was giving all of us a gentle reminder to be aware of what we are getting, and how we are getting it.
Country of origin should only matter to one who is looking for that cachet. There are good pipe makers in Canada, the U.S., England, and Scotland. I live in the U.S. and generally by U.S. and Canadian goods. My Bagpipe is made in Scotland. I like the sound of Dunbars (Canada), Atherton (U.S.), but love the feel and sound of Shepherds (Scotland). They are all Great Highland Bagpipes. I chose Fife, Scotland as the source of them for the instrument, not for the location of the business. Almost all of my buying descisions occur after much research and thought.
BTW - Like CajunScot, I too always want to know the source of information, it is a part of the breed of genealogists and historians. Just like on this forum "If there's no pictures, it didn't happen", a historian or genealogist "If there is no documentation, it is very unlikely"

Slainte

[RockyR]

snip...

So, if "the point of the thread was that businesses STEALING pictures and STEALING descriptions and STEALING designs who PURPOSEFULLY mislead customers are theives", then I'm afraid I would have to say that people USING business names that MISLEAD customers are UNETHICAL though possibly not THIEVES.

Then the question becomes, if I come across a company that has a great range of products, exactly what I am after AND very reasonably priced, but there's something about their business that I consider is unethical, shall I buy from them?

And that's where my point about hypocrisy came in - because it seems on here that if the company is based in Pakistan then the answer is no, but if they are based in California then the answer is yes.

Oh the complexities of moral dilemmas.

Cheers, Graham.

Good debate (although getting off topic)...

So effectively, you'd believe ANY company not based in Scotland or Ireland or Wales that uses the following words is being 'unethical'... Irish/Ireland, Scottish/Scotland, Highland, Gaelic, Celtic, Wales/Welsh. I just can't buy it. There are HUNDREDS of stores in America named 'The Irish Shop'. There's practically one in every county in every state(there was one across the street from my old shop). Do all their customers really believe that they are based in Ireland? Might it be believed that the majority of their products COME from Ireland? I'd probably make that leap if I didn't know every single fact.

Also, my point of showing different company names is that there are companies in BOTH US AND Pakistan that use 'highland' in the name. I noticed you didn't pick on the Pakistani company with Highland in the name.

I think we'll have to 'agree to disagree' on the name thing... at least to degrees.

My issue isn't so much with the name of the company (although your points are noted), so much as with the actual product you purchase from them. When they steal the image, description and design, they're LYING to me about the product. When someone uses an Irish or Scottish sounding name, unless they lie about their physical address on their 'contact us' page, they're not lying, just using a creative company name to invoke images of Scotland or Ireland. Also, they're not trying to trade as if they ARE Scotland or Ireland, so I don't agree with the 'Champaign' anaolgy. I'd be MORE apt to agree with that analogy if the products they carry were made outside Scotland or Ireland (like Pakistan) and they were to try to pass them off as 'Authentic Tartan... Designed in Scotland'. Hmmm... I've seen kilts with that tag.

At this point, I think we should agree to disagree and yield the floor to those still discussing the topic at hand.



***on a SIDE note, I'm very pleased that for the most part, the thread has remained civil and we're discussing polarized views as adults. That isn't a backhanded jab at anyone... just an honest compliment to people here.

[Heming]

I'm back from three blissful days with no Internet, and am reading the new posts in this thread. I just want to step in and reiterate that I did not start this thread about the relative merits of expensive vs. cheap goods, or even high quality vs. low quality alternatives. Nor did I start this thread to discuss the relative merits of buying goods made from one country over another.

This thread is about truth in advertising and supporting businesses who follow ethical business practices. Period.

I feel that this point was relatively clear in your first post, it was also well proven and at least by me well received.

I agree completely that one should know what one is buying. The location of a factory does not imply anything about the quality of its products, but untruthful advertising will at best be a sign of stupidity and at worst of fraud.

I run a small hobby-business (non kilt-related) myself, and know first hand how devastating it can be to a small operation when someone "steals" your designs, images or wording.

I will gladly buy cheap, pakistani-made products from any company anywhere in the world if they tell me that's what I'm getting.

[macwilkin]

I would love to see documented evidence (and not just a sentence on a website) that a firm in pre-partition India was supplying kilts & kit to Her Majesty's forces. While officers did on occasion commission private purchase uniforms from local tailors (US officers purchasing khaki uniforms in Hong Kong), it is documented that Highland Battalions had their own tailors from the ranks.

If there is such a source, I'd love to see it.

T.

[slohairt]

I would love to see documented evidence (and not just a sentence on a website) that a firm in pre-partition India was supplying kilts & kit to Her Majesty's forces. While officers did on occasion commission private purchase uniforms from local tailors (US officers purchasing khaki uniforms in Hong Kong), it is documented that Highland Battalions had their own tailors from the ranks.

If there is such a source, I'd love to see it.

T.

I agree. We occasionally hear this but no valid proof is ever brought forward. Hopefully it isn't the company that sent me five identical spam emails this morning!