Why so serious?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Most curious. I wonder if there are actual cases on record of a knife/sword fight breaking out at Ren Faires or Highland Games? I wonder if there are cases on record of visitors to Ren Faires or Highland Games actually accidently cutting themselves, or someone else, with a knife or sword they brought or bought.

I can't speak to people getting cut, but I do recall a person being shot at the LA RenFaire back about 1978 or thereabouts. A group called "The Night Watch" used to fire a musket salute from a hill top as "good Queen Bess" would pass through the village. All went well until one of them forgot to remove the ramrod from his matchlock. A woman, about 300 yards away, ended up with the ramrod thru her arm, and it was lights out for "The Night Watch" as far as the Patterson's (producers of the RenFaire) were concerned.

Maybe that's why the guy's with the big swords look so serious. Maybe they're worried about having brought a sword to a gun fight.

[Jack Daw]

Most curious. I wonder if there are actual cases on record of a knife/sword fight breaking out at Ren Faires or Highland Games? I wonder if there are cases on record of visitors to Ren Faires or Highland Games actually accidently cutting themselves, or someone else, with a knife or sword they brought or bought.

In a way. Ironically, it was with a pocketknife....

from May 18 2006 Navasota paper report:

Man gets 55 years in Renfest slaying

By APRIL AVISON
Eagle Staff Writer

ANDERSON - A Montgomery man was sentenced to 55 years in prison Wednesday after a Grimes County jury heard a tearful plea from a mother whose son was stabbed to death at the Texas Renaissance Festival two years ago.

Brent William Noland, 21, was found guilty Tuesday (Eagle, May 17) of murdering U.S. Navy seaman Brandon Smith, 23. Noland also was ordered to pay the maximum fine of $10,000 for the first degree felony. He will be eligible for parole consideration in 27 1/2 years.

The eight-man, four-woman jury deliberated for more than three hours Wednesday as they considered a maximum sentence of life in prison or giving Noland probation.

Grimes County District Attorney Tuck McLain said he was pleased with the outcome.

"There's no doubt in my mind that the fact that he was 19 years old [when the crime occurred] played a role in the sentence," he said. "There's no doubt the jury struggled with that."

Defense attorney Terry Yates of Houston asked the jury to find that the offense was a crime of passion, which would have allowed a sentence of between two and 20 years, but the jury didn't reach that conclusion. Instead they considered a punishment range of between five years to life in prison, McLain said.

Yates, who could not be reached for comment Wednesday evening, also asked that Noland be placed on probation.

Noland and Smith met in October 2004 at the Texas Renaissance Festival near Plantersville, according to testimony presented during the two-week trial. Prosecutors say Noland became separated from his friends and asked Smith if he could borrow a cell phone. At the end of the day, Noland and Smith met up again, and Noland's friends began arguing with Smith's sister Kristin, according to prosecutors.

Smith stepped in and was stabbed 19 times in the chest and back, according to testimony. The force of the thrusts caused the tip of the 5-inch pocketknife to break off in one of Smith's ribs, McLain has said.

Yates argued that Noland was acting in self-defense and pointed to a stab wound in his thigh as evidence of such. Prosecuting attorneys argued that the wound may have been self-inflicted. Only one weapon - the one used to stab Smith - was found at the crime scene.

Two pastors and Noland's mother, Sue, testified on the defendant's behalf at the Grimes County Courthouse.

Smith's mother, Janet Folsom, took the stand and spoke about the losses she's suffered. Brandon Smith was the third of her four children to die an early, tragic death. Her first son, Jason, drowned in a swimming pool in 1980, and her youngest child, Jeremy, died in March 2003 in a four-wheeler accident in Madisonville.

Her husband died of a heart attack when Brandon Smith was 6 years old, Folsom said, as tears filled her eyes.

She said she attended the Renaissance Festival on the day Smith was stabbed. She left the event separate from her children, Brandon and Kristin, and recalled seeing ambulances and police cars driving past as she was on her way home.

"I just had a gut feeling," she said. "I said, 'I feel like something's happened to the kids.'"

Her neighbors were waiting outside for her when she got home and they took her to the hospital, Folsom said.

"I knew the lady at the [emergency room] window," Folsom said. "She started crying, just shaking her head."

Folsom later saw her son lying on a gurney with a sheet over his body.

"Kristin is not the same person anymore," she said after being asked about how Brandon's death has impacted her family. "She's just lost. She doesn't know how to be an only child."

Kristin Smith testified that she's been diagnosed with post-traumatic shock disorder, anxiety, depression and insomnia.

Noland doesn't have a prior felony record, but Magnolia police officers testified during the sentencing hearing that he was arrested in December 2004 and again in January 2005 for possession of marijuana. Prosecutors have said Noland had been drinking and smoking marijuana at the festival on the day Smith was stabbed.

Another man, Noland's friend Jonathan Damuth, also has been charged with murder in the case, but a trial date has not been set, McLain said Wednesday. Authorities say Damuth kicked Smith in the head while Noland stabbed him.

[Zardoz]

To be clear, the 2004 Texas Renaissance Festival incident that Jack Daw mentioned actually happened in the parking lot after the faire closed.

[Tobus]

I wonder if there are cases on record of visitors to Ren Faires or Highland Games actually accidently cutting themselves, or someone else, with a knife or sword they brought or bought.

Like Jamie said, it's mostly just about insurance and liability. It's a sign of the times.

I disagree, though, that it's necessarily "common sense" for them to ban open blades. Back in the '70s, '80s, and '90s, I saw exposed blades all over the place at Ren faires. And it simply wasn't an issue. Either no one had common sense back then, or common sense today is different than it was then.

The only incident I ever saw was a guy who had his sword over his shoulder (balancing it with his hand in front) whirl around and almost hit a lady behind him. That could have been a nasty injury, as the blade likely would have slashed right across her mouth. Perhaps some of these incidents have actually led to injuries over the years, but if so, it's not been common enough that people know about it.

Aye, I think it has more to do with the organizers looking to cut down their insurance costs and make their lawyers happy. Which is sad.

[SteveB]

I have found this thread interesting. I have not attended any Ren-fests/faires lately. There is one here in Massachusetts, which has the most draconian weapons laws in the United States, that openly encourages attendees to bring their Iron and enjoy the event. We also have the highest number of lawyers per capita than anywhere else in the World. I am a member of the New Hampshire Highland Games. Restrictions on weapons would be a violation of New Hampshire state law, and there are none for the many thousands of visitors each year.

At NHHG, I have noticed very few "characters" as such. The most out of place is the occasional young gent in thin cotton MacWalmart tartan as some form of "kilt". The only time some of the people have a "serious look" is when they do have weapons drawn, as they are being constantly alert lest anyone be hurt.

The display of weapons is usually at the parade of the Haggis, or the entry of an honoured official. All is ceremonial, and enjoyed by the attendees. I am not a blade person by nature, and own only sgians dubh. I have been "loaned" a blade and scabbard to march in an event, and present arms as part of a ceremony occasionally, much to the enjoyment of the spectators. I have a hard enough time carrying around a camera, a set of pipes, and other items that I need at the games, to want other burdens on my fat body.

Fortunately, what re-enactments are at the games, are well done.

The kooks around here prefer the South Boston Saint Patrick's day parade to come out and be seen, and once in a while at our annual Irish festival.

Slainte

[Zardoz]

Like Jamie said, it's mostly just about insurance and liability. It's a sign of the times. I disagree, though, that it's necessarily "common sense" for them to ban open blades. Back in the '70s, '80s, and '90s, I saw exposed blades all over the place at Ren faires. And it simply wasn't an issue. Either no one had common sense back then, or common sense today is different than it was then. Aye, I think it has more to do with the organizers looking to cut down their insurance costs and make their lawyers happy. Which is sad.

Sadly, I think common sense today seems to be different than it was back then!

I know that there are plenty people that come to faire that know how to use a sword safely, I could count myself among them, having fenced a lot in college. But we don't have sword licenses, so at faire how do we tell who's safe and who just dangerous? If folks just crossed at random, who's to tell a patron that just bought his first sword that he can't have a mock fight with his equally inexperianced buddy? In the lanes with 20,000 distracted kids and adults wandering by?
You know all those kids that get the wooden swords and axes etc. that start swinging them around with no idea what they are doing? If that was an untrained, possibly drunk adult it would basically be the same thing only with a stronger arm swinging a blade that will kill you.
Insurance costs and lawyers play a part, but I wouldn't want to be the owner of the faire where somebody accidently got something cut off.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

Just goes to show ya', there no shortage on stupidity anywhere. I seriously doubt that any laws about any blades anywhere really change anything, other than the ablility of the prosecutor to lob another charge at the "alleged" perpetrator, after the fact.

[NewGuise]

I seriously doubt that any laws about any blades anywhere really change anything, other than the ablility of the prosecutor to lob another charge at the "alleged" perpetrator, after the fact.

Meanwhile, the province of Saskatchewan may be "considering legislation that could include knife bans in publics spaces, age restrictions on knife sales and new 'tools' for police to combat what law enforcement officials call an upsurge of violent knife use on Saskatoon streets" ... including - if those law enforcement officials have their way - giving police the power to seize any knife that they think might potentially be used as a weapon ...

I should admit that I tend to approve of restrictions on dangerous weapons, but this is different. My elderly mother's ubiquitous pocket knife would be safe, but a young Sikh's kirpan likely wouldn't be; the acceptability of a sgian dubh would depend on a particular officer's (potentially arbitrary or biased) assessment of the person wearing it, not just of his behaviour at any particular time, since the possibility of disarming an individual deemed dangerous already exists, as does the possibility of seizing something deemed a dangerous weapon. In Saskatoon, the primary targets would inevitably be Aboriginal.

[CDNSushi]

<sigh> Don't even get me started on this s***. We live in a police state where this sort of thing gets out of hand FAST. Not even a year ago, a 74-year old American tourist was arrested and detained here in Japan (NOT a place you EVER, EVER, EVER want to get arrested and detained, BTW) for having a pocket knife.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0090728hn.html

Again. Maybe best not to get started down this path -- it IS a very emotional issue for me.　　

[HarborSpringsPiper]

<sigh> Don't even get me started on this s***. We live in a police state where this sort of thing gets out of hand FAST. Not even a year ago, a 74-year old American tourist was arrested and detained here in Japan (NOT a place you EVER, EVER, EVER want to get arrested and detained, BTW) for having a pocket knife.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0090728hn.html

Again. Maybe best not to get started down this path -- it IS a very emotional issue for me.　　

Don't want to drag you down the path here but I'm guessing no sgians dubh at the Tokyo Highland Games?