Clan Tartan Appropriateness

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Referring back to the original post (four plus pages ago):

What do you mean, you are not a Campbell? You are a member of your grandfather's family by marriage are you not? I was always of the impression (having step & adopted, cousins, etc) that if you were related by blood, marriage or love (which would include adoption and remarriage), then you are a member of that extended family. So, if your grandfather could call himself a Campbell, then you too, as a member of his family, can say you are one (at least in part). And there you have my tuppence worth.

Generally it was the accepted custom that the woman married into her husband's clan. When the reverse happened the husband customarily was adopted into her clan by a bond of manrent in which he foreswore allegiance to any chief but the chief of his wife's clan. Their children had the option of taking the Mother's surname, the father's surname, or adopting some other descriptive "surname" (ie: MacBaxter if their father was a baker (baxter).

Because clanship is based on name, some chiefs still issue a "bond of manrent" to those who wish to be regarded as members of their clan, but do not bear one of the recognized clan surnames. Of the several modern bonds that I have seen, although they vary in language, all contain a statement to the effect that the person entering into the bond "owes no allegiance to any other chief, clan, or great house of the realm."

[xman]

Mostly I'm with you, Mickey. I like the idea of people honouring relatives by donning their highland and military regalia.

I was once accosted by a reservist who saw me wearing regimental shoulder flashes on a combat shirt I was wearing casually and I was threatened with military arrest no less. I was a member of the associated cadet corps at the time so I didn't see any wrong in it and I didn't pay much attention to his browbeating. I also never stopped wearing them.

However ... I myself met a man wearing a Clan Donald kilt at a renaissance fair whom I approached to strike up a conversation. When he told me he had no relation to the clan and bought it because it was cheap (acrylic) and looked good I thought it was odd at the time and that the fellow in question was a bit so too. That said, these days I'm usually tickled when people chose to wear my clan tartan because they find it attractive.

[OC Richard]

About the wearing of military items, my grandfather was in the Army, 1st Division, from 1913 until he was discharged in 1918 following a long hospitalisation for severe wounds suffered in the battle of Chantigny. I would never dream of wearing his Silver Star, or Purple Heart, or Croix de Guerre, or 1st Division insignia, to honour his memory: those things are to him alone.

About clan tartans, the more I've read about the origins of the specific clan tartans in use today the less seriously I take them. Some have a more or less legitimate pedigree, appearing under their clan name in early books; others were originally known only by a number in the early pattern books; others were invented by the Allen brothers; others were devised for the military.

It's amazing to hear people talk of their "ancient traditional clan tartan" supposedly worn since the Dawn of Time, when the tartan in question was devised by two Englishmen as part of a deliberate hoax, or was originally a mere fashion tartan.

I avoid all that nonsense and wear Isle of Skye.

[jeremy j starche]

About clan tartans, the more I've read about the origins of the specific clan tartans in use today the less seriously I take them. Some have a more or less legitimate pedigree, appearing under their clan name in early books; others were originally known only by a number in the early pattern books; others were invented by the Allen brothers; others were devised for the military.

It's amazing to hear people talk of their "ancient traditional clan tartan" supposedly worn since the Dawn of Time, when the tartan in question was devised by two Englishmen as part of a deliberate hoax, or was originally a mere fashion tartan.

I recently did a presentation on the Unromantic History of the Kilt, and shattered more than one person's view of history... but to be honest, people don't have any better grasp of any other aspect of history...

Anything from how did Father Christmas go from wearing green to wearing red? (Coca-cola red, as a hint.) Or think that Henry Ford invented the automobile and assembly line.

[Father Bill]

With great caution lest I offend, as a priest, I acknowledge that our faith is based on history, both oral and written, and also indeed on the written versions of oral history.

I have to agree that so much of history needs to be studied ever so carefully and interpreted in context before we can ever know the true story. Further, history is written not only by the victors in war but also the victors in historiography - the study of how history came to be written.

Thus I would suggest that the stories of various tartans, although much more recent, will need to be studied carefully before attribution of any sort is made.

[Really a McQueen]

Thank you MacMillan of Rathdown. As I will admit, I am still learning many of the customs of my forefathers. But then again, I do have some adopted relatives in the family tree, so am a bit biased if their contributions are minimized in our own family history owing to how they became a family member.

[batninja]

As I have no direct affiliation with any clan, my stepmother, who dabbles in geneaolgy, has traced her Scottish ancestry far enough to realize that if I were to have a tartan, it would be a district tartan, with no clan or family affiliation. As she has been 'Mom' to me for almost forty years, I feel comfortable honoring her heritage with the Galloway tartan. (My father's heritage is Swiss, and I'm tempted to have a kilt done in the Swiss tartan!)

Prior to these findings, I was looking for a tartan to wear. I was told that it would behoove me to at least learn a bit about the tartan's history, and the clan(s) it represented, so that I wouldn't seem so pedestrian when asked.

[muirkirkca]

Here are some of my experiences - was a member of a clan MacX society for many years and at one meeting a member blurted out that my ( polyester )tie, diagonal red and blue was such and such regimental supply. Thanked him for the info and continued to wear it. With the same society mentioned that my ancestors came from Argyllshire and told that I was not a true MacX. Family married into Campbells as one of many names so maybe that was the reason.

Belong to a Scottish Country dance group and one of the members bought a new MacX kilt because he liked to design - couldn't have been more pleased.

Have a kilt that represents my wife's mothers sept. With 3 daughters I don't subscribe to the paternal stuff.

My mother's grandfather came to Canada from Leitrum Ireland. Name is claimed as a Chisholm sept.

If I followed all the rules I would wind up with a universal tartan which would solve everything. Maybe I should go for a utilikilt in camouflage

[O'Callaghan]

Generally it was the accepted custom that the woman married into her husband's clan. When the reverse happened the husband customarily was adopted into her clan by a bond of manrent in which he foreswore allegiance to any chief but the chief of his wife's clan. Their children had the option of taking the Mother's surname, the father's surname, or adopting some other descriptive "surname" (ie: MacBaxter if their father was a baker (baxter).

Because clanship is based on name, some chiefs still issue a "bond of manrent" to those who wish to be regarded as members of their clan, but do not bear one of the recognized clan surnames. Of the several modern bonds that I have seen, although they vary in language, all contain a statement to the effect that the person entering into the bond "owes no allegiance to any other chief, clan, or great house of the realm."

I find this quite interesting, although I doubt that in the 21st century anyone here is planning on fighting in battle for his clan, which is what it is all truly about.

Like many here, there is no clan on my father's side. Not only that but, my mother's clan being Irish, I doubt the chief would know a bond of manrent from a hole in the ground.

[Mickey]

This is really great reading!

That's one of the reasons I really enjoy this forum. Not a day goes by that I don't learn some great stuff, but a lot of it turns me on to further research into even more interesting information.