Panache Answers the "Big Kilt Questions"

[Mike_Oettle]

Firstly, congratulations to Jamie on a concise yet sufficiently comprehensive list of answers to the typical questions.
Secondly, the Irish kilt thing barely raises its head in South Africa. Perhaps that is because (as far as I know) the only Irish band in this country that wears kilts is that of the South African Irish regiment.
The picture of the Irish band with KFOR is a most interesting one – especially since it shows the caubeens pretty well – but in my country, at any rate, the “Are you Irish” question rarely if ever arises.
And (even if Hermann feels this debate is flogging a dead horse) let it be said again that the kilt is a Scottish invention.
The philabeg was invented in Scotland and did not spread to other Celtic lands until the late 19th century. (And I have little or no information regarding Ulster Scots use – those better informed could chime in on this.)
Its predecessor, the feile mor, is only known to have existed in tartan within Scotland, although both this garment and the philabeg have also long been known in plain material.
Nonetheless the feile mor (in non-tartan material) is derived from much older Celtic styles of dress that once were worn in both Ireland and Wales.
Personally I like the idea of its being worn (in appropriate monotones or tartans) by Irishmen, Welshmen, Cornishmen, Bretons and any other Celts who might wish to get in on the act.
And women are welcome to wear similar garments (or masculine kilts) if they so choose.
Regards,
Mike

[tpa]

Could the Scottish /Irish confusion be the result of a relatively high or equal proportion of Irish origin Americans compared with those of Scottish origin? I'm asking rather than suggesting because I don't know the percentages.

It is not an issue in the UK!

[Ian.MacAllan]

. . . I'm surprised that some folks have been assumed to be Irish rather than Scottish. I've never met anybody who didn't assume me to be Scottish right from the start.

I've been taken for Irish only when wearing a solid color, never in a tartan.

Jamie, many thanks for a truly valuable thread. You and Matt and Todd are about the only people I can think of who can go on about kilts so long and fruitfully without ever slipping into fantasy. Very good show!


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[Ian.MacAllan]

Could the Scottish /Irish confusion be the result of a relatively high or equal proportion of Irish origin Americans compared with those of Scottish origin? I'm asking rather than suggesting because I don't know the percentages.

It is not an issue in the UK!

It is certainly true that Irish pipe & drum bands seem to far outnumber Scottish ones in North America, and that seems the main way that people here are exposed to kilt wearing.

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[Macman]

It is certainly true that Irish pipe & drum bands seem to far outnumber Scottish ones in North America, and that seems the main way that people here are exposed to kilt wearing.

I think it depends on the part of North America you're in. Around here, I've never met anyone who didn't recognized the kilt as Scottish. On the other hand, when I was first dating my wife (who is from New York City), she thought I was Irish. She was corrected by one of her New York friends pretty quickly, though!

[spglenn]

Just to clarify, I meant my question in a purely innocent way of bringing up a point that seems to get overlooked, NOT b/c I 'took offence' to your posts (or anything like that).

An interesting point... Can something become 'accepted' as the norm (i.e. wearing a kilt to show off Irish Pride in North America) even if there are few in Ireland wearing kilts? Is it wrong? Is it just a case of 'it is what it is'? Do the Irish in Ireland think we're daft for wearing 'Irish Kilts' when they (generally) don't? Does that matter if the wearer feels a connection to the greater 'Pan Celtic Community' (to use someone else's phrase)?

I'm BY NO MEANS passing judgement on North Americans wearing Irish tartans. I have a few myself. I am just pondering aloud.

Nor this Ulster-Scots who wears a Donegal Tartan to honour and appease all four of his grandparental lines (because my Jonesing involves getting the clan tartans so I can wear the right one dependent on the hosts)

[spglenn]

Funny thing you said that, and again the diversity of opinion....I do not own an Irish tartan specifically because they are not recognized by any legal Irish entity that I have discovered. (nor were they even designed in Ireland) I actually emailed the Irish culture minister about this but unfortunately this was right around the time of the last government stepping down. (PS sorry if you thought I had any concerns with your comments, not at all)

I have no problem wearing my Irish Tartan here in Ireland...in fact most of the time people go "Oh!! How many are there?" So I reply there are 64 as there are two designs for every county, then there are all manner of Family, Provincial and other tartans. They may not be traditional and historic but as you can see they can look look and have a meaning to the wearer.

[Cowher]

Fantastic job Panache.

[sevenoaks]

Thank you Panache for posting this.

It answers any questions I may have had with you stating "...if YOU like it ... wear it!"

To me the negative point of view is the same as someone telling one to never grow a yellow rose as all roses are originally red! darn ....maybe they were pink ....mmm

And as far as the Irish/Scottish question goes, is easy to know who is what... simply ask them there name and if it starts with "Mc" then he is obviously a Scot.. If his name starts with an "O" then he must be Irish. If he wearing p--ts then it is crystal clear that he is nether a Scot nor is he Irish. Now if the guy is wearing blue-jeans then he must be French as denim material was originally manufactured in Nim, France. ie De-Nim. He should never be mistaken for an American or Canadian as this could be offensive to him. Now..should his Lady be wearing a silk scarf or dress then she must be an Asian....see how totally irrelevant this all becomes by constantly insisting we should all conform!

As Panache stated "if you like it..wear it."

[hkjrb623]

Great post. I've never had anyone ask if I was Irish while kilted. I've actually had someone ask if it was "one of those Celtic things", and another yell "Scottish pride!" while passing in his truck. Having mostly Scottish heritage and an Irish great-grandmother, I can fortunately say yes to most any question.

Thanks for posting so much information on these subjects. I love the end result of "wear what you want".