Surprises inside a custom Scottish-made kilt

**unixken** · 25th October 14, 07:39 PM

If you go back to "the test" that was described earlier in this thread (pulling on the strap in one hand, and the buckle in the other, as if intending to stretch the kilt), then it doesn't take a kiltmaker to know that a "casual kilt" is no less susceptible to the fabric stretching, or the stitches pulling, than any 8yd traditional kilt. The purpose of those reinforcing elements is to take the strain of that tugging/stretching, so that the fabric does not have to. If your casual kilt has a strap on one side, and a buckle on the other, the expectation is that there would be a pulling tension between the two, as soon as you put that kilt on. THAT is what the reinforcements are meant to bear.

I would turn my back and walk away from any kiltmaker who told you a 5yd kilt wouldn't be just as as stressed as an 8yd traditional.

The only kilt that would NOT experience those stresses, would be one that has NO kilt straps, and relies entirely on a belt to hold it up.

**ThistleDown** · 25th October 14, 08:08 PM

This is Steve's thread in the Freedom Kilts sub-forum, so we must keep to the subject as he began it. I'm certainly not a kilt-maker, qualified or amateur, but it seems to me that there should be no difference between a 'casual' and any other than, perhaps, the weight, the length of the raw fabric and perhaps, the stitching method. I, too, would walk away -- but that's after the fact.

**The Wizard of BC** · 25th October 14, 08:47 PM

Unixken,

If I may, there are two basic ways to construct clothing. Both apply to kilts.
When we are talking about kilt I have sort of adopted calling these two ways "Kilt made" & "jeans made".

"Kilt made" refers to a construction method where internal interfacings take the stresses of wearing and moving in your kilt.
"Jeans made" refers to a garment that gets its strength from the strength of the fabric and the stitching.

Utilikilts and most other solid colored kilts made from Poly/cotton and similar fabrics are almost always "jeans made".
Most casual style kilts are "jeans made".
All of the imports that I have seen have been "jeans made".

The only "kilt made" kilts that I know of are full traditional style (AKA The Art of Kiltmaking) and my contemporary kilts.

If you are working with poly/cottons and some other types of fabric "jeans made" works pretty good. It works for jeans.

But, if you are working in wool you must have some other strength adding material. The wool itself cannot handle the stresses. Heck wool will distort if hung over a peg instead of a hanger.
You also need additional strength materials added if you are hand-stitching.

"Kilt made" should not be thought of as 'Better'. Rather, think of it as "necessary' for a worsted wool kilt, and "essential" for a hand-stitched kilt.

**unixken** · 25th October 14, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

But, if you are working in wool you must have some other strength adding material. The wool itself cannot handle the stresses. Heck wool will distort if hung over a peg instead of a hanger.

Your clarifications regarding non-wool fabric are excellent and appreciated, Steve. I was speaking within a wool context. I should have stated so.

**ThistleDown** · 25th October 14, 09:09 PM

What Steve said, but what do I know? I'm just a kilt-wearer in the most recent of generations of kilt-wearers. The point is that a bespoke kilt needs to be made from the best of fabric by the best of kilt-tailors if it is to be passed on from you to those in the future.

**The Wizard of BC** · 26th October 14, 01:28 AM

denmcdough,

In reference to your 5 yard casual kilt --- If you think about it you answered your own question. Why is there not internal construction in a casual kilt?

Well, what is the primary reason that makers began to make 5 yard kilts?
What is the primary reason people buy them?

It's all about the cost. A 5 yard kilt uses 3/8 less fabric so there is a significant material savings And less fabric to pleat = less time and effort to pleat it = less cost.
Most 5 yard kilts are, at least in part, machine stitched. again labor savings and highly skilled labor at that.
Then if you can cut out the cost of the interfacing, stabilizer and liner you save on materials and the labor to install them.

There is only one reason for the development of the 5 yard kilt. It costs less and can, hopefully, compete with the imports.

It is a fallacy that the 5 yard casual kilt does not needing the internal construction. If the kilt is made of wool it cannot take the stresses and needs the added strength to last.
But, and this is a big but. Most 5 yard kilts are only worn occasionally or casually. If they stretch out of shape or pop the stitches the owner will probably just chalk it up to being hard on his kilt and let it slide. Or, what is more likely, they will accept the sales pitch and be happy as a clam that they got a good price.

OK, personal opinion warning!!!

If it were me, and I was looking for a kilt that told the world "This is who I am. This is my heritage." I doubt I would want that message to be "I bought the cheapest thing I could find.".
There is a quote - "We live in a world where everyone knows the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Value is one of those words that means different things to different people. It is not uncommon for someone to say "I got a good value on that" when what they mean is "I got a good price on that."

Today we say value when we mean price.

Few today equate value with how long an item will last, or how long before I have to have it fixed. We don't even fix things anymore. We throw them away.
It used to be that value did not mean that it cost more. It meant that we expected something to last an appropriate amount of time, for the price we paid for it. Even if it broke or ripped, or a button fell off we could fix it, and did.

Today we try to find the least expensive price that we can, so that when it does fail, we can throw it away, and still afford to buy another one if we want. Or we just drop the whole idea with "Well that was OK while it lasted but I'm ready to go on to the next thing.
This is the market that the 5 yard kilt is tailored to.

**denmcdough** · 26th October 14, 02:58 AM

Today we say value when we mean price.

Few today equate value with how long an item will last, or how long before I have to have it fixed. We don't even fix things anymore. We throw them away.
It used to be that value did not mean that it cost more. It meant that we expected something to last an appropriate amount of time, for the price we paid for it. Even if it broke or ripped, or a button fell off we could fix it, and did.

Today we try to find the least expensive price that we can, so that when it does fail, we can throw it away, and still afford to buy another one if we want. Or we just drop the whole idea with "Well that was OK while it lasted but I'm ready to go on to the next thing.
This is the market that the 5 yard kilt is tailored to.

Ah yes, how true!! Unfortunately, I bought the 'casual' kilt in my earlier days of kilt wearing and was ignorant as to what went into making a truly good kilt, or the "value" as you stated, Steve. I went for the price. As I only wear the casual kilt infrequently, it seems to be holding up at this point, but I'm sure, with time, it'll get stressed and fall apart.

My three 'tanks' were constructed the correct way, and I'm happy to say that it WAS a good value. Wally Catanach is an engineering prof at Penn State, so I know that he built a tank! And Bonnie Heather Greene did my Robertson, and I know she's a top notch kilt maker and did equally wonderful construction. If I ever do get another casual, which is somewhat unlikely, then I'll specify that the construction be heavy duty!!!

**Steve Ashton** · 26th October 14, 03:29 AM

Well, then it won't be a casual kilt anymore. It will be a low yardage Tank.

**denmcdough** · 26th October 14, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

Well, then it won't be a casual kilt anymore. It will be a low yardage Tank.

Ha, ha! I like that....."low yardage tank!" You might have to coin that as a new term in kilt wearing. Steve, you must be the first one to ever use that phrase!??

**bonnie heather** · 26th October 14, 06:10 PM

Uh-oh! Now I'm thinking... Where do we draw the line? In addition to 8-9 yard "tanks", I also make a variety of lower yardage woolen kilts. For 7, 6, 5, and 4 yard kilts I automatically do the waist stabilizer, steeking and canvas with tailor basting.

But when it gets down to 3 yard kilts for children or for mini-kilts... then my mind-set changes. For kids, I want to keep the fabric in tact for future alterations and don't want to do the cut-outs. For mini-kilts... there's so little fabric that I don't think it needs heavy reinforcement.

So that all comes to the question of when is a kilt.. Not a kilt? I'd say if it's a Real kilt, it needs all the time and effort necessary to keep it in good shape for now and for generations to come.