Are kilts gothic (or anti-gothic)

[Erisianmonkey]

Punk is about being exposed
Goth is about concealment

Very close. I would say that it is more about something that is concealed, rather than concealing something

Punk music lyrics are very literal, right to the point
Goth music lyrics are cryptic with lots of obscure references

Obscure references, yes. Cryptic, maybe in parts, but then there are also the bands like Type O Negative that lay it right out there.

Punks want to be in the light
Goths long for the Shadows

True, very true. I was once given the nickname "Dark" because the person who gave it to me only ever saw me at night. (I have a mild allergy to sunlight and keep out of it if possible.)

The Punk emotional vibe is anger.
The Goth emotional vibe is sorrow.

Yes and no. While there is a great deal of sorrow in goth music, there is a definite current of anger.

Punks want the cold truth
Goths want the romantic ideal

Works for me!

Punks have a unisex look that leans to the masculine
Goths have a unisex look that leans to the feminine

I'd hesitate to call the goth look unisex, but there is some gender bending that goes on. The only time I've ever worn women's clothes in my life is when I went to a costume party as a dead nun.

Punk is grounded in reality, it is a reaction to the here and now
Goth is fantasy, an escape from the here and now

Whenever possible, yes.

Punk's goal is to inspire outrage
Goth's goal is to inspire dread

Or at least cause those who think to do so. I would say that goths, on the average, tend to be more literate than the "regular" punk.

At the risk of steering this conversation somewhere where it can't go on this board, although there is a subset of Christian goths, you'll find that a lot more of them are pagan, atheist or agnostic. Sorry mods, I just couldn't leave the Christian goth comment upthread untouched.

[Robinhood]

Thanks Panache. Your description
really gives me an idea about what's
going on.

I can see how the "tending toward the
feminine" influences their views on
kilt wearing. The kilt is pretty
masculine, maybe too much for them
around here.

I wonder about the "dread" part. Do
they want to be dreaded, or to share
their own dread? I'm just guessing
that maybe you meant a "sense of
forboding" rather than dread?


ps. I'm not troubled by the religious
comment, but am I also not interested in
it. I'd rather the discussion continue
without further reference to it.

[Sir Robert]

Religion is part of it. Goths reject a lot of the modern dogma of religion while embracing the underlying faith. Your not wanting to discuss the religious aspects shows your level of discomfort, this is exactly how they feel, discomfortable.

The kilts are similar in that they express both a rejection of our modern made in Malaisa Levis while embracing our romantisied clothes of the past.

[Raphael]

Kilts are fashion items in the Goth culture. We don't wear kilts because of our ethnic background. We wear kilts because we like the look. Lip service and Tripp NYC produced a few models for the Goth/Punk market and they can be found in specialty stores.

It is true that masculinity is defined differently in the Goth community. Most women are attracted to the men with make up, nail polish and skinny. It is very true that lots of Goth males wear kilts as part of their club wears, but few wear kilts exclusively.

Robinhood, let me ask you this question:

Do you have problem with Goths wearing kilts?

[Erisianmonkey]

It is true that masculinity is defined differently in the Goth community. Most women are attracted to the men with make up, nail polish and skinny.

It is very true that masculinity is defined differently in the goth culture. Masculinity in the goth culture is very internalized and native to the individual, as opposed to the modern mainstream sports-culture as epitomized by fans of American football, where masculinity is an external concept to be displayed by aggressive behavior and attitudes. In goth culture, it tends to be that the men who wear the lipstick and nail polish are considered comfortable enough with their masculinity that they do not need to make an external show of it.*

I'll disagree with you over the skinny comment though. The weight thing tends to be a function of the trendy "Hot Topic" types of goth.

*This may be an unpopular comment, but I will have to mention that almost every negative comment about my kilts that I have received from men have come from someone wearing some form of team wear from an American football team.

[neo71665]

Religion is part of it. Goths reject a lot of the modern dogma of religion while embracing the underlying faith. Your not wanting to discuss the religious aspects shows your level of discomfort,<snip>.

It doesn't show discomfort, it shows he read the rules of this forum and is sticking to them.

[Robinhood]

No, Raphael, I don't have a problem with
goths (or anyone else) wearing kilts.

[Matthew Siegmann]

I will say this I have been friends with a few goths back in highschool and they fit the discription that Panache posted fairly well... while it's not compleatly accurate, it's about as close as I'd be able to get too and I knew 5. As far as the kilt being Goth, I also agree, it depends on the Goth... and what the kilt looks like. Generally the ones that wear kilts wear ones that are either solid black or are very dark in colour... ie. red and black or even the Black Watch. I knew a guy when I was at the University of Missouri-Rolla who was goth and had a kilt in a Navy and Black tartan. I will say just like any other cultur of people one Goth differs from another differs from another and while you have one group that will define Goth as one thing, another group will say that group is wrong in some areas and go and define Goth another way. Also to point out, the "Vampire" culture is a spin off of Goth, but the few Goths I do know all agree that Vampires are very different then Goths. So, there you have it. It's a culture like any other, and just like any other they don't all agree what exactly their culture is but all share general common bonds. Also to point out, Goths are comprised of people with many different religious backgrounds, though I will agree more tend to be pegan or athiest but what I've learned from my Goth friends, most are agnostic. I hope that little religious point isn't in violation of the rules.