Fake Scots Titles

[Mael Coluim]

The Moderators have received notifications on this thread so; I am temporarily moving it to the Cooling Off Corner while we sort things out.

Ern Malcolm for the Forum Moderators

[tripleblessed]

Much of the loss of land and property by Loyalists happened not at the hands of "rebel mobs" but by confiscation through the courts after the cessation of hostilities. Not by any means to say there were NO mobs, but let's "remember the history" and note that many homes were burned by both British regulars and Tory militias, often turning women and children out of their beds and seizing all foodstuffs and livestock. These policies recruited many men for the Continental Line. One woman, who was turned out with two small children into the winter night to watch her house burn on another occasion was traveling on horseback with these same two children, small enough that both were on the horse with her, and had her horse shot out from under her by British troops. Just to be fair.

Cajunscot makes valid corrections, though, and accuracy is of great value. My gggg -grandfather Norman Morrison sold his land in N. Carolina and returned to Skye with his wife Christian Gillis and their children, returning after the war and re-purchasing their land. Their daughter married Duncan Hughes, late of Kingoldrum, Angus, who remained through the war and worked with or fought for (unclear so far) Loyalist forces.

I applaud all for standing for their beliefs. Period.

[macwilkin]

Much of the loss of land and property by Loyalists happened not at the hands of "rebel mobs" but by confiscation through the courts after the cessation of hostilities. Not by any means to say there were NO mobs, but let's "remember the history" and note that many homes were burned by both British regulars and Tory militias, often turning women and children out of their beds and seizing all foodstuffs and livestock. These policies recruited many men for the Continental Line. One woman, who was turned out with two small children into the winter night to watch her house burn on another occasion was traveling on horseback with these same two children, small enough that both were on the horse with her, and had her horse shot out from under her by British troops. Just to be fair.

Cajunscot makes valid corrections, though, and accuracy is of great value. My gggg -grandfather Norman Morrison sold his land in N. Carolina and returned to Skye with his wife Christian Gillis and their children, returning after the war and re-purchasing their land. Their daughter married Duncan Hughes, late of Kingoldrum, Angus, who remained through the war and worked with or fought for (unclear so far) Loyalist forces.

I applaud all for standing for their beliefs. Period.

I never denied Loyalist atrocities; however the "Patriot myth" of the Revolution frequently vilifies "Tories" to the point of hyperbole; I call it the "Star Wars Syndrome". The average Loyalist (or for that matter, British regular) was not an Imperial Stormtrooper.

I would remind you, sir (btw, would you mind introducing yourself -- my name's Todd) of Alexander Hamilton, who rescued Loyalist Myles Cooper, President of King's College (now Columbia) in New York from being tarred and feathered (which was not a quaint activity for the tourists) by a Rebel Mob. Hamilton also spoke about the need for the new Republic to respect the property rights of Loyalists, and for Americans to pay their debts owed to Glasgow and Birmingham merchants, and not use Independence as a way to shirk on them.

For an excellent look at what the Highland Loyalists endured in the Revolution, Duane Meyer's The Highland Scots of North Carolina is well worth perusing.

Apologies to John for the OT rant.

T.

[Morris at Heathfield]

I never denied Loyalist atrocities; however the "Patriot myth" of the Revolution frequently vilifies "Tories" to the point of hyperbole; I call it the "Star Wars Syndrome". The average Loyalist (or for that matter, British regular) was not an Imperial Stormtrooper.

Are you quite sure about that?:

FIRST TROOPER: Do you know what's going on?

SECOND TROOPER: Maybe it's another drill.

FIRST TROOPER: Have you seen that new BT-16?

SECOND TROOPER: Yeah, some of the other guys were telling me about it. They say it's, it's quite the thing to see ... What was that?

FIRST TROOPER: That's nothing. Outgassing. Don't worry about it.

Regarding the subject of this thread (and American titles in specific), I would like to point out that it was only in the United States that Joshua Abraham Norton was able to attain a noble title.

[macwilkin]

Are you quite sure about that?:



Regarding the subject of this thread (and American titles in specific), I would like to point out that it was only in the United States that Joshua Abraham Norton was able to attain a noble title.

Sorry, but your attempt at humour failed with me. I guess I don't get your Star Wars reference.

T.

[Morris at Heathfield]

I only meant to point out that even the Imperial Stormtroopers in Star Wars, like British regulars, are mostly just ordinary guys trying to do their jobs. In fact, I believe we have at least one "Imperial Stormtrooper" on the forums.

I'm not disagreeing at all with your defense of Tories and redcoats. I have some ancestors who served in the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War and some who I suspect were, if not active Tories, at least had loyalist sympathies. Many of them migrated north across the St. Lawrence after the war.

[tripleblessed]

As I said, NO implication that there weren't mobs. War places men on all sides in untenable situations, and horrendous things happen. It serves no one to pretend that "our" side is blameless, whichever side is "ours". When the folk on the other side are neighbors and relatives, it can get personal and mean even
quicker. In war, as in all of life, we do the best we can in the moment based
on the best information available, but our best is often out of reach, and we are frequently impaired by misinformation and over-amped emotions. Kind of like the forum, at times.

Which occasionally leads some to feel inadequate, leading to the belief that a
title might be just the thing to get respect back, or that needed bucks can be
gained with a little "harmless" scam... Back on track?

[macwilkin]

As I said, NO implication that there weren't mobs. War places men on all sides in untenable situations, and horrendous things happen. It serves no one to pretend that "our" side is blameless, whichever side is "ours". When the folk on the other side are neighbors and relatives, it can get personal and mean even
quicker. In war, as in all of life, we do the best we can in the moment based
on the best information available, but our best is often out of reach, and we are frequently impaired by misinformation and over-amped emotions. Kind of like the forum, at times.

Which occasionally leads some to feel inadequate, leading to the belief that a
title might be just the thing to get respect back, or that needed bucks can be
gained with a little "harmless" scam... Back on track?

Your post reminded me of this quote:

The fact of the matter is that war changes men's natures. The barbarities of war are seldom committed by abnormal men. The tragedy of war is that these horrors are committed by normal men in abnormal situations. Situations in which the ebb and flow of everyday life have departed and have been replaced by a constant round of fear and anger, blood and death.

-- Major J.F. Thomas in "Breaker Morant"

[auld argonian]

Hence the very scary phrase, "the banality of evil"?

Best

AA

[Detroitpete]

Your post reminded me of this quote:

The fact of the matter is that war changes men's natures. The barbarities of war are seldom committed by abnormal men. The tragedy of war is that these horrors are committed by normal men in abnormal situations. Situations in which the ebb and flow of everyday life have departed and have been replaced by a constant round of fear and anger, blood and death.

-- Major J.F. Thomas in "Breaker Morant"

Todd, I'm always very thankful of the depth of your historical knowledge, and expecially the objectivity by which you present it. Thanks!

The quote above reminds me of a few chats we had during my time in combat. I distress at the number of times we used to say--concerning all sides, 'it should never be this easy to turn young men into savages'. More sadly yet, we knew we were most definitely not the first to say this.

I appologize for the slight detour/hijack--back to your regualrly scheduled discussion regarding false peerage titles.