Thinking of Leaving

[Failed God]

No one reported or accused Biblemonkey of violating anything.

i may have misunderstood something. so i am just asking for clarification i guess. But didn't you say there were 2 reports of rule 7 violations. But you asked the mods to leave the thread open and not put it in the cooling off corner. If the complaints were not to the original poster why would they close the thread anyway ? wouldn't the course of action be to instead delete the posts of the offending party rather then close what the majority deem a good thread?

[Tony]

eh, post #11 by Frank is much more Rule 7ish than biblemonkey's and I suspect is the reported post in question.

Threads like this can either be cathartic or divisive. I'm thinking the former right now, but it might only be the people who agree who are posting.....

[Steve Ashton]

To clarify,

There were two reports filed against the same post. We often see this. Some threads or posts will generate many reports, all of exactly the same thing.

It is a pretty good bet that if the Moderators receive more than one report of the same post that something is going on.

In this case one of the reports was called back. It had nothing to due with the post or the rule but more because the report was delivered via PM and not according to proper procedure.



If a single post within a thread is reported we can sometimes pull and move just that one post. Often however, others have quoted the post or continued the discussion beyond the reported post. In these cases we have no option but to move the entire thread.



Even though I do not vote on rules violations I am ultimately responsible for everything. I keep track of all reports and also of the votes cast by the Moderators and the resulting decisions made.

If you put things in proper perspective very few threads are actually closed. You would also be surprised by how many times the Moderators decision on reports is that no violation has occurred and the thread is returned to the forum.

I know that the ones that are closed get the attention. That is only human nature. But the facts speak for themselves. There are far fewer threads closed today than at any other time in the history of this forum.

The difference now is that the system is more transparent. You know when things are done by the Moderators. It is policy that no post is ever moved or closed without leaving behind a notice of some sort. No thread is closed without a full reason being stated.
No thread or post just disappears. There is always an explanation left for the action of the Moderators.

This is also true of our disciplinary policy. Only spammers trying to post about their porn site or Viagra sales are ever banned without notice. (we average 150 a day)
If someone has had their membership revoked they have had 4 separate offenses. The policy on how the moderators must handle all this is plainly spelled out in our FAQ's.

Since I have owned the forum only one membership has been revoked, and only one person is on a temporary suspension.

Not too bad a record for over 250,000 posts and over 5500 members in the same time frame.

[Bing]

The difference now is that the system is more transparent. You know when things are done by the Moderators. It is policy that no post is ever moved or closed without leaving behind a notice of some sort. No thread is closed without a full reason being stated.
No thread or post just disappears. There is always an explanation left for the action of the Moderators.

But it isn't completely transparent Steve. I had a post reported a while back. Mea culpa, I will admit to pushing to the edge on that one. The mod did fully inform me after about a week and I was given one demerit point, that aspect of the system was at least functionally transparent.

It was what went on before where there was no transparency. I was not informed who got their knickers in a knot and pushed the button (although I have a good inkling who it was). I was not given the opportunity to have a discussion with them via PM to iron out the differences. Odds are I would have withdrawn the post, I'm a reasonable guy.

But here's the rub, I respect everyone's right to hold their beliefs, but I don't have to actually respect the belief itself. Beliefs are ideas, and when we can not discuss or even criticize ideas then we have a problem. When ideas become immune to criticism, when ideas become so sacred because everyone is afraid to comment then we get things like people killing cartoonists for drawing pictures they don't like. That's where I draw my line.

The mods did their thing in the background too, conducting the investigation and holding the vote via PM and only then coming out with their ruling afterward.

We have a system where the Grade 2 playground begins the process and the Court of Star Chamber completes it. Neither is transparent, neither is suitable for adult interaction.

[mookien]

Tony: I agree. I read some bitterness in Frank's comments and he did say "I bid you all adieu" and "See ya down the road".

But, I still don't regard his post as a "farewell message". I think he was saying "farewell" to the thread, not the blog. He also wrote, "A lot of times, I just move on, ...", which I also thinks supports my supposition. Maybe, he'll weigh in and clarify his post.

[Woodsheal]

Very few - if any! - members here purposely give offense. But apparently there IS a small minority who are all too quick to TAKE offense. The onus is on the latter group, in my opinion. The thin-skinned hand-wringers ought to pause and "get a grip" before diving for the "report post" button. Dynamic conversations that are proceeding in a mature fashion should not trouble any "adult" here....

[mookien]

Woodsheal: Hear, hear!

Madmacs: Now we know how you got your moniker. Funny.

[CDNSushi]

Wow! I don't check the forum for just one morning, and all of a sudden I walk into this thread, already on page 8.

There is little for me to say that hasn't already been said, but I would like to offer a little bit of food for thought, coming from an ex-moderator on several other online discussion forums, and as a participant on numerous others.

There is no perfect system.

And in case you missed that, let me say it again with emphasis: There is no perfect system. Every forum creates its own "culture" and its own way of doing things that is unique. I can tell you right now, for instance that an adult-only thread would NOT benefit this place -- it's just not right for this forum's culture (in my opinion).

I used to be a silent mod (I had mod status with privs to the mod-only forum and threads, but retained an advisory role... Actual action would be taken by full-on mods) on one forum that was a spinoff another one -- that was created as a reaction to the perceived over-moderation of the original. (Not kilt-related whatsoever). Well, in the interest of being everything that the first forum WASN'T, the new forum instituted some interesting changes. Moderatorship was also much more open, but certainly not without its challenges. One of the interesting things they did, was start a forum, not unlike XMTS's "penalty box," except threads weren't locked in there. It was called "Fight Club" -- A place for threads that just get too nasty for the rest of us... And people could just FLAME ON to their hearts' contents. It started out okay at first, but within months it turned out to be kind of a failed experiment, and the rules had to be modified. The theory was, to simply give people the chance to work things out, or run out of steam eventually. Problem was, no one ever ran out of steam, and no one wanted to back down... If you excuse the vernacular, the e-peens were bloody HUGE!

But XMTS is no different. Having been hanging around this bunch for a few years already, I've seen this thread before, at least on a few occasions.

People get frustrated, occasionally leave, and within 48 hours there's a new thread on another kilt forum talking about the heavy-handed moderatorship here. In fact, I'd be surprised if this weren't already up being discussed elsewhere. No matter, that's all irrelevant.

If there's one thing I've noticed about XMTS, is that it IS fairly consistent. It IS fairly strictly moderated, and it always HAS been. And I think that those who have stayed on throughout some of the changes and growing pains and member exodi (exoduses?) have been able to come to grips with that and somehow reconcile the friendship, informative value and positive qualities with the fact that you CANNOT say what you like, when you like, how you like.... And realize that even a completely BENIGN thread can turn sour.

Has there been a rash of benign threads turning sour? Maybe. But I would encourage everyone, the least of whom the OP, to not give up on the forum just because the weather turned rainy for a few days.

Take a break? Sure. We all need 'em. Leave for good? That's everyone's right, but I have yet to visit a perfect forum. Unless you learn to exorcise your demons ANYWHERE, it's just a matter of time until you're faced by the same problems on the NEXT site. And the next one, and the one after that.

[beloitpiper]

I'm with Steve on this one.

Biblemonkey, if you don't like the rules or the culture of this forum, just leave. No reason to be so melodramatic about it. There's plenty of other websites to patronize.

[CDNSushi]

I'm with Steve on this one.

Biblemonkey, if you don't like the rules or the culture of this forum, just leave. No reason to be so melodramatic about it. There's plenty of other websites to patronize.

At the same time, holding a "don't let the door hit you on the way out" attitude is not very conducive to growth or improvement. It's basically saying: "We are above reproach, and the way we do things around here works! Deal with it!"

By that yardstick, I would have left Japan years ago (or been expelled from the country), as I INSIST on pointing out racism, intolerance, and xenophobia when I see it! You wouldn't believe how many times people have told me to go back to Canada if I don't like it here. Just as much as it torqued me when people back home would point the finger at "immigrants" saying that they should just go back to where they came from rather than expressing themselves or try to effect change, it happens here too. That kind of "shut up or go home" attitude really misses the point! If everyone always just shut up, turned their heels and left quietly, no one would ever learn anything, and the status quo would remain.

Change can be good too! And if that is NOT the opinion of Steve and the rabble, then may I also suggest removing the "Comments and Suggestions" forum as well. Seems that it would simplify a lot of things.